[TPR] What we are about . . . .
Asa Jay Laughton
asajay at asajay.com
Sun Dec 4 09:15:09 PST 2011
Aaaaaaargh,
Keep talkin'... yea... go ahead.... just KEEEEEEP Talkin'
New valves
New retainers
New keepers
- figure on the guides needed replaced or sleeved
- new three-angle valve job
- assuming no seats need to be replaced (would be nice to put hardened
seats in)
- should machine the guides for positive-type seals
- MUST maintain proper valve stem installed height due to bolt-down rockers
- can't have the head faced, or it throws off the rocker install
The slippery slope....
- while I'm in there, I should go ahead and replace the cam/lifters
- but then I'd probably need to consider an adjustable valve train
- I'd like to move to head studs (yea, a bit more difficult to remove
the heads from the engine bay)
- If I'm in that far, it would be nice to swap all the bearings
- but if I'm in that far I should check the cylinders and replace the
rings on the pistons
- but if I find out I have too much slop in the cylinders I should get
it bored .010 over or so
- which leads to new pistons
- hmmm, I've been thinkin' about a stroker for the next build....
- Sam "Okay 'grandpa' now that it's 2020, when you are going to fix the
Pantera so I can drive it?"
Back to reality. Advantages:
- replaces all those two-piece valves
- gives me the chance to swap the intake to one of the FPP dual-plane
models I have
Disadvantages:
- cost
- doesn't replace that one noisy lifter that comes and goes
Swap the engine from the Mach I:
- new fluids.
- new pilot bearing.
- not as slippery of a slope.
I'll probably stay torn on this for a while.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
On 12/4/2011 8:13 AM, bob Radefeld wrote:
> Dear Chuck,
> Weren't you one of the folks with advice regarding the "slippery
> slope" syndrome that so easily occurs when one pulls his engine? That
> certainly applied to me when my engine came out of my car & I've got a
> hunch it could very easily infect Asa if he swaps engines. If he can
> somehow "immunize" himself against this happening then YES, I would
> agree that swapping engines might allow for a smaller outlay of $$ for
> him. Personally, however, I would pull only the heads & be more
> assured that my chances of sliding were minimized to the max.........FWIW.
> Bob
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net
> <mailto:cengles at cox.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Not Completely Stock Engine Owner,
>
> My biggest concern was with the lousy plastic
> timing gear and you’ve taken care of that. I had forgotten about
> the two piece valves. I think the best and most unpleasant
> comments on that are from JB and Rowdy. To paraphrase one of my
> favorite quotes for this situation: “As long as nothing happens to
> the engine, there’s no danger.”
>
> Perhaps for the least financial cost, the
> Mustang engine transplant might the best deal. You said that the
> biggest dollar cost would be adjusting or rebuilding the carb for
> it’s new situation in the Pantera. You could put the Pantera
> engine on a stand and then……..put the Mustang on the proverbial
> back burner of “when I get ‘round tuit” and/or begin another
> engine build from those three re-builders you have for a Mustang
> powerplant.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
> Fr*om:*tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
> <mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com>
> [mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
> <mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com>] *On Behalf Of *Asa Jay
> Laughton
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 03, 2011 7:52 PM
> *To:* tpr at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .
>
> Well the fact is there is nothing -wrong- with the stock engine
> -in- the Pantera right now. Except for doomsayer's like John (no
> offense intended) who keep a tinge of doubt in my mind, I have no
> qualms about running this engine at 100 MPH for 90 miles. It
> needs nothing right now other than an oil and filter change, well
> and maybe a new radiator (or rebuilt, I'm working on that).
>
> Granted, running it between WOT and full Brakes on the local track
> for 20 minutes at a shot, or brutalizing it on an autocross course
> isn't the same. Might it not survive 100 MPH for 90 miles? Maybe.
>
> Two years ago I replaced all the valve stem keepers and valve stem
> seals. I've tuned it for no-knock on 92 Octane pump gas (of
> course it's a '73 de-tuned engine anyway.) It has a full-roller
> timing set (after the stock set went south). Okay, so it's not
> strictly stock, like Brock Tella stock, okay?
>
> No worries though, I'm not about to spend a brazilian dollars on
> new parts for a new rebuild. That comes secondary. What the
> angst is about is whether to buy in to the idea the stock engine
> might grenade on course and instead run the engine I've built for
> the Mach I. Details on that engine build are here:
> http://www.asajay.com/351rebuild/351rebuild.htm
>
> It's been running in the Mach I since 2001, just not been driven a
> whole lot.
>
> <sigh> I just need new shocks/springs, a new radiator, wheels and
> tires, an oil and filter change and I'll be ready. But I'll also
> listen to other advice. What other reasons are there that my
> engine as it is might not make it 90 miles at 100 MPH?
>
> Asa Jay
>
>
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
> & Shelley Marie
>
> Spokane, WA
>
> ******************************
>
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com <http://www.racingagainstautism.com/>
>
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com <http://www.teampanteraracing.com/>
>
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 12/3/2011 5:35 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>
> Dear Asa,
>
> Ahem. That should read: ***John’s*email is
> filled with words of wisdom.
>
> My bad, Chuck Engles
>
> *From:*tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
> <mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com>
> [mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com]***On Behalf Of* Charles
> Engles
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 03, 2011 7:33 PM
> *To:* 'John Bentley'; 'Asa Jay Laughton';
> tpr at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .
>
> Dear Asa,
>
> John email is filled with words of wisdom.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Chuck Engles
>
> *From:*tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
> <mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com>
> [mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com]***On Behalf Of* John
> Bentley
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 03, 2011 6:03 PM
> *To:* Asa Jay Laughton; tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .
>
> Asa,
>
> You gotta stop this! Don't run Silver State with an original
> un-touched engine since you will probably suck a valve at mile
> 25! Don't worry about the long list of $20k worth of parts you
> WANT and just get it running and run the 100 MPH class. Take
> smaller steps or you will NEVER drive it again. :) My garage is
> filled with parts I have collected along the way and if I waited
> until they were all installed it would never leave the jack stands.
>
> Don't make me send the Brazilian girls up there to fix your
> engine......!
>
> JB
>
> *From:*Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> <mailto:asajay at asajay.com>
> *To:* tpr at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 3, 2011 3:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .
>
> You're excellency,
>
> There is always room at the Northwest Pantera Research Institute
> for The Pope. The last transients to stay here were Mike Drew and
> John Christian on their way to the Rocky Mountain Tour. I have a
> refrigerator specifically designated for beer. Although it's not
> normally stocked, it miraculously fills anytime a man of the shop
> cloth comes to stay. And one of the natives has a "Hut" always
> well stocked with pizza.
>
> I do have an emotional attachment to the engine in the Pantera.
> It's an original numbers matching, never been rebuilt, still
> runs. Yes.... the more I drive it -hard-, the more I take a
> chance on breaking something, which I sometimes have angst
> about.... until I climb in, fire it up and drive away. So on the
> one hand, I really should swap it, but on the other... how cool
> would it be to complete the SSCC in a triple digit speed class,
> with the original numbers matching engine, never been rebuilt, 40
> years after it was made? ... WOW!
>
> The Mach I could sit without an engine. I haven't actually driven
> it in -over- a year. It's really in a sad state of bodywork and
> paint. But I just know if it sits for -long- without an
> engine.... it will depress me even further as to it's non-driven
> state. That engine is -not- numbers matching and I could pretty
> much put it anywhere I want without any angst.
>
> The engine currently on the stand in the lab is still waiting
> further forensics, which I'm hoping to get to this winter. It
> isn't a good candidate for a rebuild; it was bored .030" over last
> time and has nearly 80K miles on it or so. I have three others
> stored that I could use for new rebuilt platforms, but I don't
> know what condition they are in.... again, the Northwest PRI has
> no money for research at the moment.
>
> If the angels granted this kind of project could be undertaken, it
> would most likely happen in January and would look something like
> this:
>
> - Move Shelley's Jeep out of garage, move Mach I in
> - Remove engine sans transmission (time estimate, half a day)
> - Drain radiator of coolant, unhook radiator hoses, remove
> radiator
> - Drain engine of oil, unhook oil lines to accumulator
> - Remove fan belts and fan
> - Remove power steering pump and set aside (or unhook hoses if
> necessary)
> - Remove alternator
> - Unhook all wiring to the engine and place aside
> - Remove carb, tape over intake
> - Remove distributor
> - Unbolt headers at head
> - Unhook fuel line and cork it (if there's any left)Asa Jay
> Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> - Unbolt transmission, motor mounts and pull the sucker
> - Put the engine on a stand
> - Move Mach I back outside, move Shelley's Jeep back in.
> - Remove the engine from the Pantera (time estimate, half a day)
> - Remove the decklid
> - Drain coolant, unhook hoses, remove radiator (needs new or
> rebuilt radiator)
> - Drain engine oil
> - Drain ZF gear oil
> - Unhook fuel line and cork
> - Remove carb and distributor, cover holes
> - Unhook all wiring, set aside
> - Remove A/C compressor (unused currently), set aside
> - Unhook/remove starter (get it out of the way)
> - Remove A/C Condensor
> - Unhook headers
> - Unhook transmission linkage
> - Unhook transmission wiring
> - Unhook half-shafts
> - Remove clutch slave, set aside
> - Unbolt engine and trans mounts and pull the sucker
> - Swap the ZF to the other engine (an hour maybe)
> - Swap flywheels (the Mach I is an automatic)
> - Install new pilot bearing since the Mach I doesn't have one
> (money)
> - Install pressure plate and clutch disc (assuming they are
> fine, otherwise.... more money)
> - Reverse the process on the Pantera (another half day)
>
> But then.....
> - I don't have a well-tuned carb for the Mach I engine. The
> Carter AFB on there works, but not as optimally as it should. The
> Holley from the Pantera would work, but it's not tuned to the
> higher horsepower of the Mach I engine. Do I rebuild and re-tune
> the Carter or do I re-jet the Holley?
> - I could use the Duraspark distributor from the Mach I in the
> Pantera but I'd need to wire up a computer box in the engine
> compartment to make it work. Best to do that while the engine is
> out. (more money)
> - If the engine is out it's a good time to replace the rubber
> mounting doughnuts. (more money)
> - If the engine is out, it's a good time to re-plumb the cooling
> system, ala John Taphorn/Dave Bell's method. (more money and some
> creative work in the engine bay)
> - Might as well remove the A/C parts for now since they aren't
> being used.
>
> So I look at all this and it just doesn't seem practical. But I
> get that darn thundering clapping sound from a good strong V8
> engine in my bones and "practicality" begins to get awfully
> transparent.
>
> Bless me father for I have sinned... I have lust for more
> horsepower and coveted my neighbors ponies.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> & Shelley Marie
>
> Spokane, WA
>
> ******************************
>
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> <http://www.racingagainstautism.com/>
>
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com <http://www.teampanteraracing.com/>
>
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 12/3/2011 1:48 PM, David in Durango wrote:
>
> So, you have a "spare" for the Pantera? Hot motor? (well, usable).
>
> Swap them out! If you have some emotional attachment to the
> Pantera motor, use it for the dream rebuild "next winter" [1] and
> have some fun in the mean time. I've heard the Pope would donate
> labor for 3-4 days if he had a place to stay and beer/pizza
> rations. That way, if you dropped something big, you would have
> back up! Hell, he might even deliver your new wheels, too.
>
> Or you could sit on the porch while the big dawgs play . . . . .
>
> Morally unemployed,
>
> David in Durango
>
> [1] next winter = appropriate economic time
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Asa Jay Laughton <mailto:asajay at asajay.com>
>
> *To:* tpr at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com>
>
> *Sent:*Saturday, December 03, 2011 2:10 PM
>
> *Subject:*Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .
>
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh.........
>
> The more I -SIT- here and dwell on it.....
> The more I want to put the 351C from the Mach I into the Pantera.....
> nnnnnnngh......
> I know I could have it done in a couple weekends....
> rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh........
> It's winter........
> I'm not driving the car......
> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmph................
> Must.... resist.... temptation.
>
> If I take that engine out of the Mustang... it'll be the death
> nell for the car and I can't have that.
>
> must.... resist....
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
> & Shelley Marie
>
> Spokane, WA
>
> ******************************
>
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> <http://www.racingagainstautism.com/>
>
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com <http://www.teampanteraracing.com/>
>
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 12/3/2011 12:20 PM, David in Durango wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIn0IOD9eEc&feature=related
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIn0IOD9eEc&feature=related>
>
> just in case you've forgotten.
>
> Snow and low of 16 forecast for tonite!
>
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