[TPR] Fwd: [DeTomaso] transaxle info please

DENNIS ANTENUCCI teampantera at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 15 10:50:32 PST 2023 

Our own “Steve Lisa” sharing challenges as he prepares for a new endurance race season.

 I loved his quotable comment about the ZF breaking in competition. Steve’s level of effort goes way beyond what most of us ever spend getting ready for an open track or road event. 

And yes, he has promised to share updates with us in the future as I know most of you are not on the POCA so here ya go…

“…it was chewing itself apart”

Read thread below.

Dennis & MD
TPR

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> Date: January 14, 2023 at 9:04:27 AM PST
> To: DENNIS ANTENUCCI <TEAMPANTERA at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] transaxle info please
> 
> 
> Thanks, Dennis.  We love racing the Panrrera and we will get it right.
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 09:27 DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Awesome Steve. We’re all very proud of you. 
>> 
>> Dennis
>> 
>> “…it was chewing itself apart”
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jan 14, 2023, at 8:03 AM, Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regarding temps, the Quaife ran 250 degrees the first few sessions and the first heat race. Then it ran 260, then 270, then 290 (first hour of the 24), then 320 during the second hour.  In hind sight, by the last few sessions it was chewing itself apart.
>>> 
>>> Contributing to the heat was the need to tighten the CWP clearance to get further into the coast side of the gear.  This what off road racers did that ran on the coast side of the CWP on 4 wheel drive vehicles.  The expectation before Daytona was we could stop the chipping away of the pinion by tightening the clearance very very slightly.  The risk was more heat...and that it wouldn't work at a track like Daytona which is hard on everything.  We know the result.
>>> 
>>> Before this issue, we were running consistently 190 water temp, 250 trans temp in the ZF, and 250 oil temp.  We were happy with that, but would like to see engine oil down some.  
>>> 
>>> It was apparent to us that, with the oil cooler in back and the trans just in front of the cooler, everything in the "area" ended up settling while racing at 250 (according to the IR gun).  We will be figuring out how to get more fresh air in and more hot air out to lower the temperature at speed in the engine compartment while still complying with Gr. 3 rules (no holes in body work and no external aero) and without slowing the car or screwing up it's handling. We will be doing some aero and video testing early this year, playing around with yarn and underbody scoops into the engine bay.  That kind of stuff is fun and interesting....way more than screwing around with the trans problems.
>>> 
>>> I will share more as we progress.
>>> 
>>> I also have some pics of the Quaife internals if anyone is interested I will load into a drive and share them.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards, 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>>> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
>>> Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com 
>>> Direct: 480-442-0297
>>> 
>>> www.PatentIt.com
>>> 
>>> Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656  |  F: 480.535.6628  |  A: 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
>>> 
>>> Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357  |  F: 312.896.5633  |  A: 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>>> 
>>> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023, 6:55 PM MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Stupid autocorrect. 
>>>> 
>>>> Neither PROMPT or efficient…..
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> > On Jan 13, 2023, at 5:47 PM, MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> > 
>>>> > Steven,
>>>> > 
>>>> > I spoke with Lloyd last week. ZF is neither promote nor efficient. There is a waiting list I believe is it would be some months. 
>>>> > 
>>>> > But then it would be right….
>>>> > 
>>>> > Mike
>>>> > 
>>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>>> > 
>>>> >> On Jan 13, 2023, at 5:43 PM, Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>    Yes, indeed -- hindsight is always 20-20. And,A yes, this is a
>>>> >>  frustrating (very) project.
>>>> >>  At the time, years ago when I was looking for a gearbox for my GT40,
>>>> >>  ZBT was for some reason, not a viableA option.A  I am talking about
>>>> >>  7-8-9 years ago,A when I wanted to upgrade theA GT40 from a Getrag.A
>>>> >>  It is beyond my ability to recall why, but ZBT turned out to be a dead
>>>> >>  option.A
>>>> >>  Even today, I clicked on ZBT's "gearbox" page and got a blank page
>>>> >>  --A [1]https://rbttrans.com/gearboxes/.A  I clicked on their "service"
>>>> >>  page and got a blank page --A [2]https://rbttrans.com/home/service/.A
>>>> >>  A So, it's not encouraging. But, I will call ZBT Tuesday, after the
>>>> >>  holiday, and see if I can get through and ask how long it will take and
>>>> >>  how much they are charging for their gearbox.A A
>>>> >>  In the meantime, I am fairly well deep into this Quaife project, and
>>>> >>  they seem willing to work with me (albeit with me spending more money
>>>> >>  thanA it should cost).A  Again, hindsight is 20-20.A  But, if ZBT is a
>>>> >>  promptA and efficient option, then I will pursue it in parallel.A  I
>>>> >>  would very much appreciate knowingA from the forum the most recent
>>>> >>  purchase, install and price for a ZBT box.A A
>>>> >>  As always, I appreciate the knowledge and feedback from the forum.A
>>>> >>  Regards,A
>>>> >>  Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>>>> >>  The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
>>>> >>  Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>>>> >>  Direct: 480-442-0297
>>>> >>  [3]www.PatentIt.com
>>>> >>  Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A  |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
>>>> >>  |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55 E.
>>>> >>  Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>>>> >>  This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
>>>> >>  confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
>>>> >>  error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
>>>> >>  you.
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 5:38 PM DENNIS ANTENUCCI
>>>> >>  <[4]teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  Let me second Markas number. In 25 years of endurance open road racing
>>>> >>  In the Pantera I completed 50 ORRas and never had a ZF over heating
>>>> >>  issue or failure.A
>>>> >>  The only time I remember anyone had a problem with the ZF in endurance
>>>> >>  racing was the time Junior Wilson got airborne in the hill sections
>>>> >>  where he got airborne at one point and his Pantera came down in gear
>>>> >>  and bent the input shaft.
>>>> >>  Dennis Antenucci
>>>> >>  Team Pantera Racing with a C8 nowd-
>>>> >>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>    On Jan 13, 2023, at 4:14 PM, mark skwarek <[5]ehpantera at yahoo.com>
>>>> >>    wrote:
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  i>>?
>>>> >>  While running SSCC in the 145 mph class, my ZF temp was 270 degrees
>>>> >>  after 90 miles. There were no modifications to the ZF, 3.77 gears, no
>>>> >>  cooler.
>>>> >>  Mark
>>>> >>  On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 06:10:46 PM EST, Steve Lisa
>>>> >>  <[6]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
>>>> >>  A  If the Quaife doesn't work this time around, we will be talking to
>>>> >>  A  RBT.AA  We went down this path because I had theA Quaife sitting in
>>>> >>  our
>>>> >>  A  shop to install in our GT40 race car.AA  After speaking to Quaife,
>>>> >>  they
>>>> >>  A  sold be the upside down CWP and said it should bolt right in .....
>>>> >>  A  You all know the rest of that story.AA  I am told that current
>>>> >>  pricing
>>>> >>  A  for the Quaife gearbox is a few thousand under the RBT, but I don't
>>>> >>  A  know first hand.AA  I bought it 6-7 years ago for the GT40, which
>>>> >>  has
>>>> >>  A  been a project still.AA  So,AA  I re-puropsed it for the Pantera.A A
>>>> >>  A  In hindsight, I should have kept the Quaife for the GT40 and bought
>>>> >>  an
>>>> >>  A  RBT.AA  Much cheaper than two DNF's and all the effort on the
>>>> >>  A  Quaife.A A
>>>> >>  A  Regards,A
>>>> >>  A  Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>>>> >>  A  The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
>>>> >>  A  Email: [7]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>>>> >>  A  Direct: 480-442-0297
>>>> >>  A  [1][8]www.PatentIt.com
>>>> >>  A  Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA  |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
>>>> >>  A  |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
>>>> >>  A  Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357AA  |AA  F: 312.896.5633AA  |AA
>>>> >>  A: 55 E.
>>>> >>  A  Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>>>> >>  A  This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
>>>> >>  A  confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
>>>> >>  in
>>>> >>  A  error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
>>>> >>  Thank
>>>> >>  A  you.
>>>> >>  A  On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 3:58 PM Julian Kift
>>>> >>  A  <[2][9]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A It's a ZFQ, still only one Pantera application that I am
>>>> >>  aware
>>>> >>  A  A  of and
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A that's Steve Lisa's Gr3 race Pantera.
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A The ZFQ came about primarily to address the shortage of
>>>> >>  ZF's
>>>> >>  A  A  for the
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A GT40 crowd and as a cheaper alternative using Porsche
>>>> >>  A  A  internals. There
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A are plenty of threads on the GT40s.com forum attesting to
>>>> >>  the
>>>> >>  A  A  quality
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A (or lack thereof). Recently Quaife has beefed up the
>>>> >>  design,
>>>> >>  A  A  but I
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A think folks are still reporting failures, the latest I saw
>>>> >>  the
>>>> >>  A  A  case
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A literally split in two. The price has also crept up to that
>>>> >>  of
>>>> >>  A  A  a new
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A RBT ZF, with similar availability.
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Julian
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A
>>>> >>  A  A  A
>>>> >>  __________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A From: DeTomaso
>>>> >>  <[3][10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
>>>> >>  A  A  behalf of
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Steven Edwards <[4][11]gsedwards at cox.net>
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 12:43 PM
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A To: [5][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >>  A  A  <[6][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Subject: [DeTomaso] transaxle info please
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Any info on this transaxle? I got the picture some time ago
>>>> >>  and
>>>> >>  A  A  was
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A looking for a follow up.
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Was talking to Dennis and he was interested in the brand
>>>> >>  name ,
>>>> >>  A  A  and
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A cost and any info on how it preforms.
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A I am sorry that I am getting too old to remember anything
>>>> >>  about
>>>> >>  A  A  this,
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A so any help will be appreciated.
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Thanks
>>>> >>  A  A  AA  A Steven Edwards
>>>> >>  A  A  _______________________________________________
>>>> >>  A  A  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>>>> >>  A  A  DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> >>  A  A  [7][14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >>  A  A  [8][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>>>> >>  A  A  archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> >>  References
>>>> >>  A  1. [16]http://www.patentit.com/
>>>> >>  A  2. mailto:[17]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>>> >>  A  3. mailto:[18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >>  A  4. mailto:[19]gsedwards at cox.net
>>>> >>  A  5. mailto:[20]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >>  A  6. mailto:[21]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >>  A  7. mailto:[22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >>  A  8. [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> >>  _______________________________________________
>>>> >>  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>>>> >>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> >>  DeTomaso mailing list
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>>>> >>  Virus-free.[26]www.avg.com
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> References
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  Visible links
>>>> >>  1. https://rbttrans.com/gearboxes/
>>>> >>  2. https://rbttrans.com/home/service/
>>>> >>  3. http://www.patentit.com/
>>>> >>  4. mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com
>>>> >>  5. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
>>>> >>  6. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
>>>> >>  7. mailto:SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>>>> >>  8. http://www.PatentIt.com/
>>>> >>  9. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>>> >> 10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 11. mailto:gsedwards at cox.net
>>>> >> 12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> >> 16. http://www.patentit.com/
>>>> >> 17. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>>> >> 18. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 19. mailto:gsedwards at cox.net
>>>> >> 20. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 21. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> >> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> >> 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> >> 26. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  Hidden links:
>>>> >> 28. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
>>>> >> 29. file://localhost/tmp/tmpDqhdvR.html#m_-801473986017269564_m_4983982219757566050_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> 
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