[TPR] Open Chamber heads with Pop-Up pistons?
Asa Jay Laughton
asajay at asajay.com
Mon May 28 09:49:16 PDT 2012
Alright so this brought a question to my puny brain...
We'd all probably love to have closed chamber heads. But what if all I
had were some open chamber heads. Would using a pop-up piston work to
get the quench down further? Or is it a losing proposition on this head?
What are the opinions of the collective Pantera knowledge base?
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
On 5/28/2012 9:35 AM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
> I wouldn't mind picking up another pair of 4V quench heads. I have
> two or three pair of open chamber, but only one pair of closed
> chamber. Not that I'm greedy or anything.
>
> I wouldn't mind a pair of Aussie 2V heads with quench chamber, but I
> don't think they'd be the best for racing, as I believe you are
> pointing out and Chuck has validated since he's moved on as well.
>
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
> On 5/28/2012 6:56 AM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:
>> Hey Doc,
>>
>> Since I do it so well let me play devil's advocate here from half way
>> around the world.
>>
>> Why use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street form
>> when you can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that someone has
>> thrown away or 302B and/or any similar alum heads that make so much
>> more Hp (475-525 at the REAR wheels)?! ;-]>
>>
>> If the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads like you
>> dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just better"...then I gotta
>> say since I am IN Australia now and I am hearing from the boys down
>> under who want to seriously go fast that they all want quench or
>> closed chamber heads. They will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!!
>> Yea even in street modified weekend race engines that get driven on
>> the street. ;-]>
>>
>> Working for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie BLOCK
>> if I can find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be special because
>> Jack keeps telling me that like he keeps telling me someone is gonna
>> make a NEW Cleveland block to replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack
>> block I got from JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I suspect
>> in September when I come back to the States to kick some bow tie ass
>> at Silver Sate it will be driving that same stock Pantera averaging
>> somewhere around 150 Mph then driving to the Green Lantern to shame
>> all the bow tie slackers pretending they are real
>> racers ;-]>
>>
>> Okay rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy? ;-]>
>>
>> PS did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?
>>
>> Aussie Dawg Down Under
>> Team Pantera Racing
>> "No One Gets Out Alive"
>> <www.teampanteraracing.com>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
>> *To:* 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>;
>> detomaso at list.realbig.com; tpr at teampanteraracing.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.
>>
>> Dear Asa,
>>
>>
>> The first and second engines I built were done with the
>> standard
>> ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the rings *move*
>> during engine operation. They do not remain permanently in place. The
>> first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and 385 hp.
>>
>> The next two engines were built with 4v heads and absolute
>> carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno testing showed 440
>> and 485 hp.
>>
>> I am about to begin the next engine and I will continue
>> with my
>> laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to hurt engine
>> performance.....!
>>
>>
>> Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>> Original Message-----
>> From: tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
>> <mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com>
>> [mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
>> <mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com>] On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM
>> To: detomaso at list.realbig.com <mailto:detomaso at list.realbig.com>;
>> tpr at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com>
>> Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.
>>
>> Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when assembly an
>> engine:
>> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg
>> The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or about one inch)
>> from the front centerline of the piston, one on either side. The oil
>> ring
>> segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston toward the
>> rear.
>> The illustration above shows this quite well.
>>
>> But do the rings rotate after assembly?
>>
>> A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert who was
>> familiar
>> with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in the end it
>> doesn't
>> really matter where you index them to start with...
>> they're going to move.
>>
>> Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics engine. I had been
>> careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I removed the
>> pistons/rods
>> from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they didn't move
>> at all,
>> the relationships below are rounded. Here are the results. My
>> "timing" is
>> from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The piston
>> position at 12
>> o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6 o-clock is at the
>> rear.
>>
>> The first compression ring is at the top, the second on the bottom.
>>
>> Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil
>> #1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2
>> #2 10 11 12/3
>> #3 10 2 10/1 (probably the only one closest
>> to installed)
>> #4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were lined up)
>>
>> #5 9 2 5/5
>> #6 12 9 5/5
>> #7 5 4 6/5
>> #8 9 3 3/7
>>
>> As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up a good
>> illustration and post it later.
>>
>> Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble and engine?
>> Actually, I'll most likely still index them when assembling, only because
>> I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them does assist
>> with
>> initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at that as an easy
>> path for compression gasses to get past. In other words, gases might get
>> past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap in the bottom
>> compression ring but then they'll have to travel around the edge a while
>> before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In the end, it
>> may not
>> really matter.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>> Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest
>>
>> --
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> & Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TPR mailing list
>> TPR at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:TPR at teampanteraracing.com>
>> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TPR mailing list
>> TPR at teampanteraracing.com <mailto:TPR at teampanteraracing.com>
>> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TPR mailing list
>> TPR at teampanteraracing.com
>> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5028 - Release Date: 05/28/12
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TPR mailing list
> TPR at teampanteraracing.com
> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5028 - Release Date: 05/28/12
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://teampanteraracing.com/pipermail/tpr_teampanteraracing.com/attachments/20120528/16c1ecc0/attachment-0003.html>
More information about the TPR
mailing list