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Alright so this brought a question to my puny brain...<br>
<br>
We'd all probably love to have closed chamber heads. But what if
all I had were some open chamber heads. Would using a pop-up piston
work to get the quench down further? Or is it a losing proposition
on this head?<br>
<br>
What are the opinions of the collective Pantera knowledge base?<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
<br>
On 5/28/2012 9:35 AM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4FC3A96B.7020801@asajay.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
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I wouldn't mind picking up another pair of 4V quench heads. I
have two or three pair of open chamber, but only one pair of
closed chamber. Not that I'm greedy or anything. <br>
<br>
I wouldn't mind a pair of Aussie 2V heads with quench chamber, but
I don't think they'd be the best for racing, as I believe you are
pointing out and Chuck has validated since he's moved on as well.<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
<br>
On 5/28/2012 6:56 AM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1338213371.10919.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span>Hey Doc,</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">Since I do it so well let me
play devil's advocate here from half way around the world.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Why
use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street
form when you can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that
someone has thrown away or 302B and/or any similar alum
heads that make so much more Hp (475-525 at the REAR
wheels)?! ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If
the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads
like you dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just
better"...then I gotta say since I am IN Australia now and
I am hearing from the boys down under who want to
seriously go fast that they all want quench or closed
chamber heads. They will pay YOU to take their Aussie
heads!!! Yea even in street modified weekend race engines
that get driven on the street. ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Working
for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie
BLOCK if I can find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be
special because Jack keeps telling me that like he keeps
telling me someone is gonna make a NEW Cleveland block to
replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack block I got from
JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I suspect in
September when I come back to the States to kick some bow
tie ass at Silver Sate it will be driving that same stock
Pantera averaging somewhere around 150 Mph then driving to
the Green Lantern to shame all the bow tie slackers
pretending they are real </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">racers
;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Okay
rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy?
;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">PS
did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 127, 64);">Aussie
Dawg Down Under</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; color:
rgb(255, 0, 0);">Team Pantera Racing</span></div>
<div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">"No
One Gets Out Alive" </span></div>
<div><span><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">www.teampanteraracing.com</a>></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Charles Engles <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:cengles@cox.net"><cengles@cox.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
'Asa Jay Laughton' <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com"><asajay@asajay.com></a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
Dear Asa,<br>
<br>
<br>
The first and second engines I built were done
with the standard<br>
ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the
rings *move*<br>
during engine operation. They do not remain permanently
in place. The<br>
first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and
385 hp.<br>
<br>
The next two engines were built with 4v heads
and absolute<br>
carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno
testing showed 440<br>
and 485 hp.<br>
<br>
I am about to begin the next engine and I will
continue with my<br>
laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to
hurt engine<br>
performance.....!<br>
<br>
<br>
Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles<br>
<br>
<br>
Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>]
On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com"
href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
<br>
Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when
assembly an engine:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg">http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg</a><br>
The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or
about one inch)<br>
from the front centerline of the piston, one on either
side. The oil ring<br>
segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston
toward the rear.<br>
The illustration above shows this quite well.<br>
<br>
But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br>
<br>
A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert
who was familiar<br>
with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in
the end it doesn't<br>
really matter where you index them to start with... <br>
they're going to move.<br>
<br>
Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics
engine. I had been<br>
careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I
removed the pistons/rods<br>
from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they
didn't move at all,<br>
the relationships below are rounded. Here are the
results. My "timing" is<br>
from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The
piston position at 12<br>
o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6
o-clock is at the rear.<br>
<br>
The first compression ring is at the top, the second on
the bottom.<br>
<br>
Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>
#1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>
#2 10 11 12/3<br>
#3 10 2 10/1 (probably the
only one closest <br>
to installed)<br>
#4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were
lined up)<br>
<br>
#5 9 2 5/5<br>
#6 12 9 5/5<br>
#7 5 4 6/5<br>
#8 9 3 3/7<br>
<br>
As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up
a good<br>
illustration and post it later.<br>
<br>
Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble
and engine? <br>
Actually, I'll most likely still index them when
assembling, only because<br>
I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them
does assist with<br>
initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at
that as an easy<br>
path for compression gasses to get past. In other words,
gases might get<br>
past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap
in the bottom<br>
compression ring but then they'll have to travel around
the edge a while<br>
before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In
the end, it may not<br>
really matter.<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br>
<br>
--<br>
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>
& Shelley Marie<br>
Spokane, WA<br>
******************************<br>
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