[TPR] What we are about . . . .

Sun Dec 4 07:06:37 PST 2011

Dear Mr. Not Completely Stock Engine Owner,

                  My biggest concern was with the lousy plastic timing gear
and you've taken care of that.  I had forgotten about the two piece valves.
I think the best and most unpleasant comments on that are from JB and
Rowdy.   To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes for this situation: "As
long as nothing happens to the engine, there's no danger."

                   Perhaps for the least financial cost, the Mustang engine
transplant might the best deal.  You said that the biggest dollar cost would
be adjusting or rebuilding the carb for it's new situation in the Pantera.
You could put the Pantera engine on a stand and then....put the Mustang on
the proverbial back burner of "when I get 'round tuit" and/or begin another
engine build from those three re-builders you have for a Mustang powerplant.

                                     Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles

From: tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
[mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com] On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 7:52 PM
To: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
Subject: Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .

Well the fact is there is nothing -wrong- with the stock engine -in- the
Pantera right now.  Except for doomsayer's like John (no offense intended)
who keep a tinge of doubt in my mind, I have no qualms about running this
engine at 100 MPH for 90 miles.  It needs nothing right now other than an
oil and filter change, well and maybe a new radiator (or rebuilt, I'm
working on that).

Granted, running it between WOT and full Brakes on the local track for 20
minutes at a shot, or brutalizing it on an autocross course isn't the same.
Might it not survive 100 MPH for 90 miles?  Maybe.

Two years ago I replaced all the valve stem keepers and valve stem seals.
I've tuned it for no-knock on 92 Octane pump gas (of course it's a '73
de-tuned engine anyway.)  It has a full-roller timing set (after the stock
set went south).  Okay, so it's not strictly stock, like Brock Tella stock,
okay?

No worries though, I'm not about to spend a brazilian dollars on new parts
for a new rebuild.  That comes secondary.  What the angst is about is
whether to buy in to the idea the stock engine might grenade on course and
instead run the engine I've built for the Mach I.  Details on that engine
build are here:
http://www.asajay.com/351rebuild/351rebuild.htm

It's been running in the Mach I since 2001, just not been driven a whole
lot.

<sigh>  I just need new shocks/springs, a new radiator, wheels and tires, an
oil and filter change and I'll be ready.  But I'll also listen to other
advice.  What other reasons are there that my engine as it is might not make
it 90 miles at 100 MPH?

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************     
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism

On 12/3/2011 5:35 PM,  Charles Engles wrote: 

Dear Asa,

                 Ahem.  That should read:   John's email is filled with
words of wisdom.   

                                          My bad,  Chuck Engles

From: tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
[mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com] On Behalf Of Charles Engles
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 7:33 PM
To: 'John Bentley'; 'Asa Jay Laughton'; tpr at teampanteraracing.com
Subject: Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .

Dear Asa,

                      John email is filled with words of wisdom.    

                                                 Warmest regards,  Chuck
Engles

From: tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com
[mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com] On Behalf Of John Bentley
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 6:03 PM
To: Asa Jay Laughton; tpr at teampanteraracing.com
Subject: Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .

Asa,

You gotta stop this!  Don't run Silver State with an original un-touched
engine since you will probably suck a valve at mile 25!  Don't worry about
the long list of $20k worth of parts you WANT and just get it running and
run the 100 MPH class.  Take smaller steps or you will NEVER drive it again.
:)  My garage is filled with parts I have collected along the way and if I
waited until they were all installed it would never leave the jack stands.

Don't make me send the Brazilian girls up there to fix your engine......!

JB

From: Asa Jay Laughton  <mailto:asajay at asajay.com> <asajay at asajay.com>
To: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2011 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .

You're excellency,

There is always room at the Northwest Pantera Research Institute for The
Pope.  The last transients to stay here were Mike Drew and John Christian on
their way to the Rocky Mountain Tour.  I have a refrigerator specifically
designated for beer.  Although it's not normally stocked, it miraculously
fills anytime a man of the shop cloth comes to stay.  And one of the natives
has a "Hut" always well stocked with pizza.

I do have an emotional attachment to the engine in the Pantera.  It's an
original numbers matching, never been rebuilt, still runs.  Yes.... the more
I drive it -hard-, the more I take a chance on breaking something, which I
sometimes have angst about.... until I climb in, fire it up and drive away.
So on the one hand, I really should swap it, but on the other... how cool
would it be to complete the SSCC in a triple digit speed class, with the
original numbers matching engine, never been rebuilt, 40 years after it was
made?  ...   WOW!

The Mach I could sit without an engine.  I haven't actually driven it in
-over- a year.  It's really in a sad state of bodywork and paint.  But I
just know if it sits for -long- without an engine.... it will depress me
even further as to it's non-driven state.  That engine is -not- numbers
matching and I could pretty much put it anywhere I want without any angst.

The engine currently on the stand in the lab is still waiting further
forensics, which I'm hoping to get to this winter.  It isn't a good
candidate for a rebuild; it was bored .030" over last time and has nearly
80K miles on it or so.  I have three others stored that I could use for new
rebuilt platforms, but I don't know what condition they are in.... again,
the Northwest PRI has no money for research at the moment.

If the angels granted this kind of project could be undertaken, it would
most likely happen in January and would look something like this:

- Move Shelley's Jeep out of garage, move Mach I in
- Remove engine sans transmission (time estimate, half a day)
    - Drain radiator of coolant, unhook radiator hoses, remove radiator
    - Drain engine of oil, unhook oil lines to accumulator
    - Remove fan belts and fan
    - Remove power steering pump and set aside (or unhook hoses if
necessary)
    - Remove alternator
    - Unhook all wiring to the engine and place aside
    - Remove carb, tape over intake
    - Remove distributor
    - Unbolt headers at head
    - Unhook fuel line and cork it (if there's any left)Asa Jay Laughton,
MSgt, USAFR, Retired
    - Unbolt transmission, motor mounts and pull the sucker
    - Put the engine on a stand
- Move Mach I back outside, move Shelley's Jeep back in.
- Remove the engine from the Pantera (time estimate, half a day)
    - Remove the decklid
    - Drain coolant, unhook hoses, remove radiator (needs new or rebuilt
radiator)
    - Drain engine oil
    - Drain ZF gear oil
    - Unhook fuel line and cork
    - Remove carb and distributor, cover holes
    - Unhook all wiring, set aside
    - Remove A/C compressor (unused currently), set aside
    - Unhook/remove starter (get it out of the way)
    - Remove A/C Condensor
    - Unhook headers
    - Unhook transmission linkage
    - Unhook transmission wiring
    - Unhook half-shafts
    - Remove clutch slave, set aside
    - Unbolt engine and trans mounts and pull the sucker
- Swap the ZF to the other engine (an hour maybe)
    - Swap flywheels (the Mach I is an automatic)
    - Install new pilot bearing since the Mach I doesn't have one (money)
    - Install pressure plate and clutch disc (assuming they are fine,
otherwise.... more money)
- Reverse the process on the Pantera (another half day)

But then.....
- I don't have a well-tuned carb for the Mach I engine.  The Carter AFB on
there works, but not as optimally as it should.  The Holley from the Pantera
would work, but it's not tuned to the higher horsepower of the Mach I
engine.  Do I rebuild and re-tune the Carter or do I re-jet the Holley?
- I could use the Duraspark distributor from the Mach I in the Pantera but
I'd need to wire up a computer box in the engine compartment to make it
work.  Best to do that while the engine is out. (more money)
- If the engine is out it's a good time to replace the rubber mounting
doughnuts. (more money)
- If the engine is out, it's a good time to re-plumb the cooling system, ala
John Taphorn/Dave Bell's method. (more money and some creative work in the
engine bay)
- Might as well remove the A/C parts for now since they aren't being used.

So I look at all this and it just doesn't seem practical.  But I get that
darn thundering clapping sound from a good strong V8 engine in my bones and
"practicality" begins to get awfully transparent.

Bless me father for I have sinned... I have lust for more horsepower and
coveted my neighbors ponies.

Asa Jay    

& Shelley Marie

Spokane, WA

******************************     

http://www.racingagainstautism.com

http://www.teampanteraracing.com

http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism

On 12/3/2011 1:48 PM, David in Durango wrote: 

So, you have a "spare" for the Pantera?  Hot motor? (well, usable).

Swap them out!  If you have some emotional attachment to the Pantera motor,
use it for the dream rebuild  "next winter" [1] and have some fun in the
mean time.  I've heard the Pope would donate labor for 3-4 days if he had a
place to stay and beer/pizza rations.  That way, if you dropped something
big, you would have back up!  Hell, he might even deliver your new wheels,
too.

Or you could sit on the porch while the big dawgs play . . . . . 

Morally unemployed,

David in Durango

[1] next winter = appropriate economic time

----- Original Message ----- 

From:  <mailto:asajay at asajay.com> Asa Jay Laughton 

To:  <mailto:tpr at teampanteraracing.com> tpr at teampanteraracing.com 

Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 2:10 PM

Subject: Re: [TPR] What we are about . . . .

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh.........

The more I -SIT- here and dwell on it.....
The more I want to put the 351C from the Mach I into the Pantera.....
nnnnnnngh......
I know I could have it done in a couple weekends....
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh........
It's winter........
I'm not driving the car......
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmph................
Must.... resist.... temptation.

If I take that engine out of the Mustang... it'll be the death nell for the
car and I can't have that.

must.... resist....

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie

Spokane, WA

******************************     

 <http://www.racingagainstautism.com> http://www.racingagainstautism.com

 <http://www.teampanteraracing.com> http://www.teampanteraracing.com

 <http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism>
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism

On 12/3/2011 12:20 PM, David in Durango wrote: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIn0IOD9eEc
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIn0IOD9eEc&feature=related>
&feature=related

just in case you've forgotten.

Snow and low of 16 forecast for tonite!

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