<p dir="ltr">Okay take current spec for the feeling it was. Compare to previous set up for the change needed to get a better feedback from the car.</p>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 7:32 PM Asa Jay Laughton via TPR <<a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
Found them.<br>
2021 Alignment result:<br>
<img src="cid:part1.Y00cw7l6.cwvGpmOf@asajay.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
2022 Alignment result:<br>
<img src="cid:part2.vXynCG7I.hb1Ps0N6@asajay.com" alt="">
<pre cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Spokane County ARES-RACES-ACS EC/RO
******************************
<a href="https://w7tsc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://w7tsc.org</a>
<a href="https://www.teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.teampanteraracing.com</a></pre>
<div>On 9/23/2024 16:59, David Carpenter via
TPR wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Larry's thoughts on settings: absolutely correct.</div>
<div dir="auto">5-7 degrees caster at speed, will react very
smooth.</div>
<div dir="auto">Same caster @ 20-50 mph can be a handful. (I
chose the speed side, & loved w the minor downside at slow
speeds.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Yes: toe should be Very Close to Zero. </div>
<div dir="auto">Like Larry said: even minor Toe Out makes the
steering Hunt!! (You can never ever let go of wheel)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Tire size change:</div>
<div dir="auto">The alignment was very likely done with the OLD
WHEELS!!!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The alignment specs might been right.</div>
<div dir="auto">Different wheels may have changed it all!!!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Alignment can be Checked Only:</div>
<div dir="auto">Compare print out from when it was done before.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If 'A' arms adjusted /checked as he suggests:
alignment needs to be done AFTER any 'A' arm changes....if you
go that route.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Without a print out of alignment specs: without a
ride along: it's dang hard to speculate from afar!!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I've even seen air pressure & tread designs be
the culprit!!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Not that the tread is wrong: but it could be wrong
for a certain road condition.</div>
<div dir="auto">Or someone had directional tires.....with Half the
arrows wrong!!!!!</div>
<div dir="auto">(I was SURE I HAD SEEN IT ALL.....TIL THEN!!!)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div id="m_6046861074146608811ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<font style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><span style="font-size:18.6667px"><i>"I am a part of all that I
have met!"</i></span></font>
<div dir="auto"><font style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><span style="font-size:18.6667px">Alfred Lord Tennyson</span></font></div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_6046861074146608811divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> TPR
<a href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com></a> on behalf of Larry
Stock via TPR <a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr@teampanteraracing.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 23, 2024 3:42:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mad Dog Antenucci <a href="mailto:teampantera@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><teampantera@yahoo.com></a>;
Owen Lee Green <a href="mailto:oneeyez4263@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><oneeyez4263@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Team Racing <a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr@teampanteraracing.com></a>; Jim
Wallace <a href="mailto:j.wallace@boston-group.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><j.wallace@boston-group.com></a>; Patrick Mical
<a href="mailto:pmical@patsauto.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><pmical@patsauto.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TPR] Pantera Alignment</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p>Just give me where you are at and I can
advise where to go with it.</p>
<p>Larry</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Mad Dog
Antenucci <a href="mailto:teampantera@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><teampantera@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 23, 2024 at 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Owen Lee Green
<a href="mailto:oneeyez4263@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><oneeyez4263@gmail.com></a>, Larry Stock
<a href="mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><larrys@panteraparts.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Team Racing
<a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr@teampanteraracing.com></a>, Jim Wallace
<a href="mailto:j.wallace@boston-group.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><j.wallace@boston-group.com></a>, Patrick Mical
<a href="mailto:pmical@patsauto.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><pmical@patsauto.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [TPR] Pantera Alignment</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">Excellent
feedback....thank you Larry....think we are hitting on
the real issue which is alignment settings. What I
noticed with the added 6 or 7 degrees of caster was
the Pantera LOVED the sweeper turns at speed like it
did the long straight-aways but it did NOT like the
long straight aways....so clearly this is alignment
settings.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue""> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="m_6046861074146608811x_ydp2c4327f8yahoo_quoted_7447251694">
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">On
Monday, September 23, 2024 at 01:42:41 PM PDT, Larry
Stock <a href="mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><larrys@panteraparts.com></a> wrote:
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id="m_6046861074146608811x_ydp2c4327f8yiv3879782719">
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">I
generally set up with spring rates in the 400
pound range +/-50 lbs., with rear springs 25
pounds (+/-25 pounds) more than the front
springs.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">A-Arms
need to be adjusted flat and parallel with the
road surface front and rear</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">TOE-IN
@ 1/16” on each corner making .125” total
front and rear. NOTE any rear toe out is loose
and squirrely, Front toe out wants to initiate
turns quickly and dart</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">CAMBER
with 15” tires negative ½ degree +/-1/4 degree
on all 4 corners</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">CAMBER
with 17”-18” tires negative 0-1/4 degree on
all 4 corners, with 37PSI Front, 35PSI rear
tire pressure</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">CASTER
MAX stock is 2-2-1/2 degrees, Pantera’s wants
more with 17”+ tires. I get 4-4-1/2 degrees
with offset bushings and shaved upper Ball
joints. Modified or Aluminum A-Arms should
give you up to 8 degrees, I’d try 6 degrees
and make sure the steering wheel doesn’t want
to cut your hands off at the wrist after
making a turn. More caster will make the
Pantera more stable at speed, too much will be
a handful when turning.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Larry
Stock</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Pantera
Parts Connection LC</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/550%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++Mallory+Way+%0D%0A+++++++++++++++++++++++++Carson%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++City+NV+89701?entry=gmail&source=g">550
Mallory Way</a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/550%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++Mallory+Way+%0D%0A+++++++++++++++++++++++++Carson%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++City+NV+89701?entry=gmail&source=g">
</a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/550%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++Mallory+Way+%0D%0A+++++++++++++++++++++++++Carson%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++City+NV+89701?entry=gmail&source=g">Carson
City NV 89701</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.PanteraParts.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.PanteraParts.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">PH
775-283-4411</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Fax
775-283-4410</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cell
1-800-DeTomaso 800-338-6627</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
<div id="m_6046861074146608811x_ydp2c4327f8yiv3879782719yqt72163">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">TPR
<a href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com></a>
on behalf of Owen Lee Green via TPR
<a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr@teampanteraracing.com></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Owen Lee Green
<a href="mailto:oneeyez4263@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><oneeyez4263@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 23, 2024
at 12:41 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Mad Dog Antenucci
<a href="mailto:teampantera@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><teampantera@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Team Racing
<a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><tpr@teampanteraracing.com></a>, Jim
Wallace
<a href="mailto:j.wallace@boston-group.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><j.wallace@boston-group.com></a>,
Patrick Mical <a href="mailto:pmical@patsauto.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><pmical@patsauto.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [TPR] Pantera
Alignment</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">Slightly
softer spring rate in the front might help.
Was the front feeling like it was bucking at
speed? Eg bouncing hard but aero downforce
keeping the nose down.
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">On
Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 12:36 PM Mad Dog
Antenucci via TPR <<a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">I
am coming out of my latest COVID
Fog but recall Mark and I and some
of you had discussions on while
his Z06 this year and my C8 last
year handling was no better then
how well our Pantera's alignment
was set up. Except my Pantera in
2022 and again this year (2024)
just did not track as well as it
did in 2021 with 17" front tires.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">Bare
with me as I know some of you will
have different views here but what
changed on my Pantera. One was
going to 18" front wheels and the
other big change was adding the
extended A arms that Asa put on
from Johnny woods. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">Asa
suggested the road surface may
have been the problem but Mark and
I have seen just bad road
conditions in previous years at
140-160+ speeds. So I am leaning
now on suspension settings
first....and it was suggested
adding toe in or out may be the
problem.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">When
I got the Pantera back from As
after he had a local alignment
shop reset suspension the Pantera
felt fine at speeds up to a 100 or
so but unfortunately the only
thing that matters is real road
conditions at 150+. I only average
134 this year and not sure I would
have wanted to handle much more
then 140 comfortably.....that
sweet spot for me....a 140-150
Average....but again something is
off.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">Others
suggested the wheels might have
been off but they were so well
balanced from the factory only one
wheel needed a corrected weight.
Much better then I ever saw with
other vendors wheels. So let me
know your thoughts but what I hope
is that Jim and Pat will come up
with what settings they are using
or others are using on Pantera's
running endurance speeds.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">Dawg,
with flame suit on </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282a">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
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</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
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