<p>I is just saying before yous trade out or throw away a perfectly good set of quench heads you hit yourself over the head first..</p>
<p>And yea I am saying the Aussies who want FAST street Clevelands and here Clevelands are still god like then yea they still want quench heads...now SOMEONE here made a good biz decision no doubt reinforced by others here they were solution to fuel concerns but most believe that was a stoopid idea/solution.</p>
<p>$4500 bucks for a new Aussie block really means $5-6 grand before heads n valve train...ouch. I'll buy a boat and anchor again before I ever do that although I'd love to have both ;-)</p>
<p>Too funny on Mike....mike carrying Lori's helmet can only mean 'the kid' is old like the rest of you slackers ;-)</p>
<p> Charles Engles <cengles@cox.net> wrote:</p>
<p>>Dear Mr. Instigator,<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> See responses below.<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera@yahoo.com] <br>
>Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 8:56 AM<br>
>To: Charles Engles; 'Asa Jay Laughton'; tpr@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>Subject: "We don't want Aussie Heads Mate!"<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>Hey Doc,<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>Since I do it so well let me play devil's advocate here from half way around<br>
>the world.<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>Why use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street form when you<br>
>can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that someone has thrown away or 302B<br>
>and/or any similar alum heads that make so much more Hp (475-525 at the REAR<br>
>wheels)?! ;-]><br>
><br>
>$$$$$$$ In my case, I used the Aussie heads because I had expectations of<br>
>a street engine and was impressed by the reports of more low end torque with<br>
>the Aussies. I also used Aussies because I was a rank rookie engine builder<br>
>and had modest hopes for the engine. They were my "beginner" engine<br>
>heads. In short order, I became more ambitious and moved on to 4V quench<br>
>heads. <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>If the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads like you<br>
>dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just better"...then I gotta say since<br>
>I am IN Australia now and I am hearing from the boys down under who want to<br>
>seriously go fast that they all want quench or closed chamber heads. They<br>
>will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!! Yea even in street modified<br>
>weekend race engines that get driven on the street. ;-]><br>
><br>
>$$$$$$$$ I am confused. You are saying that the Aussies don't want the<br>
>Aussie 2V heads and that they want 4V quench heads?? They're giving away<br>
>2V Aussie heads, figuratively speaking???<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>Working for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie BLOCK if I can<br>
>find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be special because Jack keeps<br>
>telling me that like he keeps telling me someone is gonna make a NEW<br>
>Cleveland block to replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack block I got from<br>
>JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I suspect in September when I come<br>
>back to the States to kick some bow tie ass at Silver Sate it will be<br>
>driving that same stock Pantera averaging somewhere around 150 Mph then<br>
>driving to the Green Lantern to shame all the bow tie slackers pretending<br>
>they are real <br>
><br>
>racers ;-]><br>
><br>
>$$$$$$$ The commonly available Aussie block is a bit better perhaps<br>
>than the increasingly hard to find American Cleveland block. They can<br>
>certainly be used with proper sonic testing evaluation. IIRC they have a<br>
>different distributor shaft diameter that must be noted and fixed by the<br>
>machine shop before engine assembly begins during the block preparation<br>
>phase. The New Cleveland *aluminum* block from MME is reported to be<br>
>for sale at $4500. Iron blocks are to follow and that price is to be<br>
>determined.<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>Okay rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy? ;-]><br>
><br>
>$$$$$$ Somebody..I can't remember who. I have pretty much have only<br>
>superficial interest in the Indy and the Indy Racing League.<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>PS did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?<br>
><br>
>$$$$$$$ *I think so*. IIRC, he and Lori decided to bring only one of<br>
>their Panteras to Phoenix and I don't think Mike was completely confident in<br>
>the fresh rebuild to take it, so I think they took Lori's Pantera.<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
>Aussie Dawg Down Under<br>
><br>
>Team Pantera Racing<br>
><br>
>"No One Gets Out Alive" <br>
><br>
><www.teampanteraracing.com><br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> _____ <br>
><br>
>From: Charles Engles <cengles@cox.net><br>
>To: 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay@asajay.com>; detomaso@list.realbig.com;<br>
>tpr@teampanteraracing.com <br>
>Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br>
>Subject: Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
><br>
><br>
>Dear Asa,<br>
><br>
><br>
> The first and second engines I built were done with the standard<br>
>ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the rings *move*<br>
>during engine operation. They do not remain permanently in place. The<br>
>first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and 385 hp.<br>
><br>
> The next two engines were built with 4v heads and absolute<br>
>carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno testing showed 440<br>
>and 485 hp.<br>
><br>
> I am about to begin the next engine and I will continue with my<br>
>laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to hurt engine<br>
>performance.....!<br>
><br>
><br>
> Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles<br>
><br>
><br>
>Original Message-----<br>
>From: tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>[mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com] On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>
>Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
>To: detomaso@list.realbig.com; tpr@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
><br>
>Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when assembly an engine:<br>
>http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg<br>
>The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or about one inch)<br>
>from the front centerline of the piston, one on either side. The oil ring<br>
>segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston toward the rear.<br>
>The illustration above shows this quite well.<br>
><br>
>But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br>
><br>
>A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert who was familiar<br>
>with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in the end it doesn't<br>
>really matter where you index them to start with... <br>
>they're going to move.<br>
><br>
>Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics engine. I had been<br>
>careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I removed the pistons/rods<br>
>from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they didn't move at all,<br>
>the relationships below are rounded. Here are the results. My "timing" is<br>
>from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The piston position at 12<br>
>o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6 o-clock is at the rear.<br>
><br>
>The first compression ring is at the top, the second on the bottom.<br>
><br>
>Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>
>#1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>
>#2 10 11 12/3<br>
>#3 10 2 10/1 (probably the only one closest <br>
>to installed)<br>
>#4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were lined up)<br>
><br>
>#5 9 2 5/5<br>
>#6 12 9 5/5<br>
>#7 5 4 6/5<br>
>#8 9 3 3/7<br>
><br>
>As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up a good<br>
>illustration and post it later.<br>
><br>
>Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble and engine? <br>
>Actually, I'll most likely still index them when assembling, only because<br>
>I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them does assist with<br>
>initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at that as an easy<br>
>path for compression gasses to get past. In other words, gases might get<br>
>past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap in the bottom<br>
>compression ring but then they'll have to travel around the edge a while<br>
>before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In the end, it may not<br>
>really matter.<br>
><br>
>Asa Jay<br>
>Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br>
><br>
>--<br>
>Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>
>& Shelley Marie<br>
>Spokane, WA<br>
>******************************<br>
>http://www.racingagainstautism.com<br>
>http://www.teampanteraracing.com<br>
>http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism<br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>TPR mailing list<br>
>TPR@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr<br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>TPR mailing list<br>
>TPR@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>TPR mailing list<br>
>TPR@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr<br>
</p>
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Mr. Instigator,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'> See responses below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 28, 2012 8:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> Charles Engles; 'Asa Jay Laughton'; tpr@teampanteraracing.com<br><b>Subject:</b> "We don't want Aussie Heads Mate!"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Hey Doc,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Since I do it so well let me play devil's advocate here from half way around the world.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Why use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street form when you can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that someone has thrown away or 302B and/or any similar alum heads that make so much more Hp (475-525 at the REAR wheels)?! ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'>$$$$$$$ In my case, I used the Aussie heads because I had expectations of a street engine and was impressed by the reports of more low end torque with the Aussies. I also used Aussies because I was a rank rookie engine builder and had modest hopes for the engine. They were my “beginner” engine heads. In short order, I became more ambitious and moved on to 4V quench heads. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads like you dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just better"...then I gotta say since I am IN Australia now and I am hearing from the boys down under who want to seriously go fast that they all want quench or closed chamber heads. They will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!! Yea even in street modified weekend race engines that get driven on the street. ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'>$$$$$$$$ I am confused. You are saying that the Aussies don’t want the Aussie 2V heads and that they want 4V quench heads?? They’re giving away 2V Aussie heads, figuratively speaking???<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Working for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie BLOCK if I can find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be special because Jack keeps telling me that like he keeps telling me someone is gonna make a NEW Cleveland block to replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack block I got from JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I suspect in September when I come back to the States to kick some bow tie ass at Silver Sate it will be driving that same stock Pantera averaging somewhere around 150 Mph then driving to the Green Lantern to shame all the bow tie slackers pretending they are real <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>racers ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'>$$$$$$$ The commonly available Aussie block is a bit better perhaps than the increasingly hard to find American Cleveland block. They can certainly be used with proper sonic testing evaluation. IIRC they have a different distributor shaft diameter that must be noted and fixed by the machine shop before engine assembly begins during the block preparation phase. The New Cleveland *<b>aluminum</b>* block from MME is reported to be for sale at $4500. Iron blocks are to follow and that price is to be determined.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Okay rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy? ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'>$$$$$$ Somebody……I can’t remember who. I have pretty much have only superficial interest in the Indy and the Indy Racing League.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>PS did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'>$$$$$$$ *<b>I think so</b>*. IIRC, he and Lori decided to bring only one of their Panteras to Phoenix and I don’t think Mike was completely confident in the fresh rebuild to take it, so I think they took Lori’s Pantera.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#007F40'>Aussie Dawg Down Under</span></i><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Team Pantera Racing</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'>"No One Gets Out Alive" </span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><<a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">www.teampanteraracing.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Charles Engles <<a href="mailto:cengles@cox.net">cengles@cox.net</a>><br><b>To:</b> 'Asa Jay Laughton' <<a href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>Dear Asa,<br><br><br> The first and second engines I built were done with the standard<br>ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the rings *move*<br>during engine operation. They do not remain permanently in place. The<br>first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and 385 hp.<br><br> The next two engines were built with 4v heads and absolute<br>carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno testing showed 440<br>and 485 hp.<br><br> I am about to begin the next engine and I will continue with my<br>laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to hurt engine<br>performance.....!<br><br><br> Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles<br><br><br>Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>[mailto:<a href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>] On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br><br>Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when assembly an engine:<br><a href="http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg">http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg</a><br>The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or about one inch)<br>from the front centerline of the piston, one on either side. The oil ring<br>segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston toward the rear.<br>The illustration above shows this quite well.<br><br>But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br><br>A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert who was familiar<br>with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in the end it doesn't<br>really matter where you index them to start with... <br>they're going to move.<br><br>Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics engine. I had been<br>careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I removed the pistons/rods<br>from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they didn't move at all,<br>the relationships below are rounded. Here are the results. My "timing" is<br>from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The piston position at 12<br>o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6 o-clock is at the rear.<br><br>The first compression ring is at the top, the second on the bottom.<br><br>Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>#1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>#2 10 11 12/3<br>#3 10 2 10/1 (probably the only one closest <br>to installed)<br>#4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were lined up)<br><br>#5 9 2 5/5<br>#6 12 9 5/5<br>#7 5 4 6/5<br>#8 9 3 3/7<br><br>As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up a good<br>illustration and post it later.<br><br>Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble and engine? <br>Actually, I'll most likely still index them when assembling, only because<br>I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them does assist with<br>initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at that as an easy<br>path for compression gasses to get past. In other words, gases might get<br>past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap in the bottom<br>compression ring but then they'll have to travel around the edge a while<br>before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In the end, it may not<br>really matter.<br><br>Asa Jay<br>Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br><br>--<br>Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>& Shelley Marie<br>Spokane, WA<br>******************************<br><a href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a><br><a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TPR mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TPR mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr" target="_blank">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>