<p>Speaking of go fast was there any Pantera at either the Borr or Norc orr events?</p>
<p>I'm afraid JB and I are gonna have to retire TPR in sept if this keeps up ;-(</p>
<p>Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote:</p>
<p>>I wouldn't mind picking up another pair of 4V quench heads. I have two <br>
>or three pair of open chamber, but only one pair of closed chamber. Not <br>
>that I'm greedy or anything.<br>
><br>
>I wouldn't mind a pair of Aussie 2V heads with quench chamber, but I <br>
>don't think they'd be the best for racing, as I believe you are pointing <br>
>out and Chuck has validated since he's moved on as well.<br>
><br>
>Asa Jay<br>
><br>
>Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>
>& Shelley Marie<br>
>Spokane, WA<br>
>******************************<br>
>http://www.racingagainstautism.com<br>
>http://www.teampanteraracing.com<br>
>http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism<br>
><br>
><br>
>On 5/28/2012 6:56 AM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:<br>
>> Hey Doc,<br>
>><br>
>> Since I do it so well let me play devil's advocate here from half way <br>
>> around the world.<br>
>><br>
>> Why use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street form <br>
>> when you can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that someone has <br>
>> thrown away or 302B and/or any similar alum heads that make so much <br>
>> more Hp (475-525 at the REAR wheels)?! ;-]><br>
>><br>
>> If the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads like you <br>
>> dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just better"...then I gotta say <br>
>> since I am IN Australia now and I am hearing from the boys down under <br>
>> who want to seriously go fast that they all want quench or closed <br>
>> chamber heads. They will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!! Yea <br>
>> even in street modified weekend race engines that get driven on the <br>
>> street. ;-]><br>
>><br>
>> Working for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie BLOCK if <br>
>> I can find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be special because Jack <br>
>> keeps telling me that like he keeps telling me someone is gonna make a <br>
>> NEW Cleveland block to replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack block I <br>
>> got from JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I suspect in <br>
>> September when I come back to the States to kick some bow tie ass at <br>
>> Silver Sate it will be driving that same stock Pantera averaging <br>
>> somewhere around 150 Mph then driving to the Green Lantern to shame <br>
>> all the bow tie slackers pretending they are real<br>
>> racers ;-]><br>
>><br>
>> Okay rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy? ;-]><br>
>><br>
>> PS did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?<br>
>><br>
>> Aussie Dawg Down Under<br>
>> Team Pantera Racing<br>
>> "No One Gets Out Alive"<br>
>> <www.teampanteraracing.com><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> *From:* Charles Engles <cengles@cox.net><br>
>> *To:* 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay@asajay.com>; <br>
>> detomaso@list.realbig.com; tpr@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br>
>> *Subject:* Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Asa,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The first and second engines I built were done with the <br>
>> standard<br>
>> ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the rings *move*<br>
>> during engine operation. They do not remain permanently in place. The<br>
>> first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and 385 hp.<br>
>><br>
>> The next two engines were built with 4v heads and absolute<br>
>> carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno testing showed 440<br>
>> and 485 hp.<br>
>><br>
>> I am about to begin the next engine and I will continue <br>
>> with my<br>
>> laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to hurt engine<br>
>> performance.....!<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Original Message-----<br>
>> From: tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com <br>
>> <mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com><br>
>> [mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com <br>
>> <mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com>] On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
>> To: detomaso@list.realbig.com <mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com>; <br>
>> tpr@teampanteraracing.com <mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com><br>
>> Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
>><br>
>> Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when assembly an <br>
>> engine:<br>
>> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg<br>
>> The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or about one inch)<br>
>> from the front centerline of the piston, one on either side. The oil ring<br>
>> segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston toward the rear.<br>
>> The illustration above shows this quite well.<br>
>><br>
>> But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br>
>><br>
>> A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert who was familiar<br>
>> with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in the end it <br>
>> doesn't<br>
>> really matter where you index them to start with...<br>
>> they're going to move.<br>
>><br>
>> Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics engine. I had been<br>
>> careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I removed the <br>
>> pistons/rods<br>
>> from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they didn't move <br>
>> at all,<br>
>> the relationships below are rounded. Here are the results. My <br>
>> "timing" is<br>
>> from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The piston position <br>
>> at 12<br>
>> o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6 o-clock is at the <br>
>> rear.<br>
>><br>
>> The first compression ring is at the top, the second on the bottom.<br>
>><br>
>> Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>
>> #1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>
>> #2 10 11 12/3<br>
>> #3 10 2 10/1 (probably the only one closest<br>
>> to installed)<br>
>> #4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were lined up)<br>
>><br>
>> #5 9 2 5/5<br>
>> #6 12 9 5/5<br>
>> #7 5 4 6/5<br>
>> #8 9 3 3/7<br>
>><br>
>> As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up a good<br>
>> illustration and post it later.<br>
>><br>
>> Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble and engine?<br>
>> Actually, I'll most likely still index them when assembling, only because<br>
>> I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them does assist with<br>
>> initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at that as an easy<br>
>> path for compression gasses to get past. In other words, gases might get<br>
>> past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap in the bottom<br>
>> compression ring but then they'll have to travel around the edge a while<br>
>> before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In the end, it <br>
>> may not<br>
>> really matter.<br>
>><br>
>> Asa Jay<br>
>> Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>
>> & Shelley Marie<br>
>> Spokane, WA<br>
>> ******************************<br>
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com<br>
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com<br>
>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> TPR mailing list<br>
>> TPR@teampanteraracing.com <mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com><br>
>> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> TPR mailing list<br>
>> TPR@teampanteraracing.com <mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com><br>
>> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> TPR mailing list<br>
>> TPR@teampanteraracing.com<br>
>> http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> No virus found in this message.<br>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com><br>
>> Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5028 - Release Date: 05/28/12<br>
>><br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>TPR mailing list<br>
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I wouldn't mind picking up another pair of 4V quench heads. I have
two or three pair of open chamber, but only one pair of closed
chamber. Not that I'm greedy or anything. <br>
<br>
I wouldn't mind a pair of Aussie 2V heads with quench chamber, but I
don't think they'd be the best for racing, as I believe you are
pointing out and Chuck has validated since he's moved on as well.<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
<br>
On 5/28/2012 6:56 AM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1338213371.10919.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span>Hey Doc,</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">Since I do it so well let me play
devil's advocate here from half way around the world.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Why
use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street
form when you can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that
someone has thrown away or 302B and/or any similar alum
heads that make so much more Hp (475-525 at the REAR
wheels)?! ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If
the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads
like you dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just
better"...then I gotta say since I am IN Australia now and I
am hearing from the boys down under who want to seriously go
fast that they all want quench or closed chamber heads. They
will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!! Yea even in
street modified weekend race engines that get driven on the
street. ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Working
for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie BLOCK
if I can find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be special
because Jack keeps telling me that like he keeps telling me
someone is gonna make a NEW Cleveland block to replace my 10
over Cleveland magic jack block I got from JB but I don't
think thats gonna happen. I suspect in September when I come
back to the States to kick some bow tie ass at Silver Sate
it will be driving that same stock Pantera averaging
somewhere around 150 Mph then driving to the Green Lantern
to shame all the bow tie slackers pretending they are real </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">racers
;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Okay
rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy?
;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">PS
did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 127, 64);">Aussie
Dawg Down Under</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; color:
rgb(255, 0, 0);">Team Pantera Racing</span></div>
<div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">"No
One Gets Out Alive" </span></div>
<div><span><<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">www.teampanteraracing.com</a>></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Charles Engles <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cengles@cox.net"><cengles@cox.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'Asa
Jay Laughton' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com"><asajay@asajay.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
Dear Asa,<br>
<br>
<br>
The first and second engines I built were done
with the standard<br>
ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the
rings *move*<br>
during engine operation. They do not remain permanently in
place. The<br>
first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and
385 hp.<br>
<br>
The next two engines were built with 4v heads
and absolute<br>
carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno
testing showed 440<br>
and 485 hp.<br>
<br>
I am about to begin the next engine and I will
continue with my<br>
laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to hurt
engine<br>
performance.....!<br>
<br>
<br>
Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles<br>
<br>
<br>
Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>]
On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com"
href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
<br>
Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when
assembly an engine:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg">http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg</a><br>
The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or
about one inch)<br>
from the front centerline of the piston, one on either
side. The oil ring<br>
segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston
toward the rear.<br>
The illustration above shows this quite well.<br>
<br>
But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br>
<br>
A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert
who was familiar<br>
with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in the
end it doesn't<br>
really matter where you index them to start with... <br>
they're going to move.<br>
<br>
Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics engine.
I had been<br>
careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I removed
the pistons/rods<br>
from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they
didn't move at all,<br>
the relationships below are rounded. Here are the results.
My "timing" is<br>
from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The
piston position at 12<br>
o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6 o-clock
is at the rear.<br>
<br>
The first compression ring is at the top, the second on the
bottom.<br>
<br>
Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>
#1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>
#2 10 11 12/3<br>
#3 10 2 10/1 (probably the only
one closest <br>
to installed)<br>
#4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were
lined up)<br>
<br>
#5 9 2 5/5<br>
#6 12 9 5/5<br>
#7 5 4 6/5<br>
#8 9 3 3/7<br>
<br>
As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up a
good<br>
illustration and post it later.<br>
<br>
Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble
and engine? <br>
Actually, I'll most likely still index them when assembling,
only because<br>
I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them
does assist with<br>
initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at
that as an easy<br>
path for compression gasses to get past. In other words,
gases might get<br>
past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap in
the bottom<br>
compression ring but then they'll have to travel around the
edge a while<br>
before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In the
end, it may not<br>
really matter.<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br>
<br>
--<br>
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>
& Shelley Marie<br>
Spokane, WA<br>
******************************<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
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href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
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href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr"
target="_blank">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><br>
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<br>
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