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I'd be interested in the piston photos.<br>
<br>
I believe as Chuck pointed out that the pop-up causes a different
problem with the flame-front. The quench chamber doesn't have
anything to impede the flame from traveling across the top of the
piston, whereas the pop-up could create a barrier to efficient flame
travel. After Chuck pointed out Dan had mentioned this before, I
remembered it too.<br>
<br>
Still, I'd be interested in the photos so I can see the style you
chose and how they fit with a standard open chamber head.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Asa Jay<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
<br>
On 5/28/2012 10:14 AM, David wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:ABDFF545-590E-4E08-8FB2-554D6F96DD66@frontier.net"
type="cite">
<div>Before I fat-thumbed the previous reply I was going to that
one could get a set of KB pistons designed just to give some
compression fo us po boy open chamber folks -that is what is in
my "Hall mini Brute" - I have pictures if interested. (no
pistons for sale- for info only)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My refresh ended up: rings and hone, bearings, cam, lifters,
springs, flywheel resurface, flow and port intake (just for
fun). Valves are good but put in the best seals. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe Dan told me this was a common fix. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy trails</div>
<div><br>
On May 28, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Alright so this brought a question to my puny brain...<br>
<br>
We'd all probably love to have closed chamber heads. But what
if all I had were some open chamber heads. Would using a
pop-up piston work to get the quench down further? Or is it a
losing proposition on this head?<br>
<br>
What are the opinions of the collective Pantera knowledge
base?<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
<br>
On 5/28/2012 9:35 AM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4FC3A96B.7020801@asajay.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
I wouldn't mind picking up another pair of 4V quench heads.
I have two or three pair of open chamber, but only one pair
of closed chamber. Not that I'm greedy or anything. <br>
<br>
I wouldn't mind a pair of Aussie 2V heads with quench
chamber, but I don't think they'd be the best for racing, as
I believe you are pointing out and Chuck has validated since
he's moved on as well.<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
<br>
On 5/28/2012 6:56 AM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1338213371.10919.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span>Hey Doc,</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">Since I do it so well let
me play devil's advocate here from half way around the
world.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">Why use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to
400 Hp in street form when you can run closed
chamber Cleveland heads that someone has thrown away
or 302B and/or any similar alum heads that make so
much more Hp (475-525 at the REAR wheels)?! ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">If the answer is, "because I don't have cool
302B alum heads like you dawg"....or its, "the
Aussie heads are just better"...then I gotta say
since I am IN Australia now and I am hearing from
the boys down under who want to seriously go fast
that they all want quench or closed chamber heads.
They will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!! Yea
even in street modified weekend race engines that
get driven on the street. ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">Working for sheep herders wages down under
I'll take a Aussie BLOCK if I can find one cheeep
ecause I know they gotta be special because Jack
keeps telling me that like he keeps telling me
someone is gonna make a NEW Cleveland block to
replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack block I got
from JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I
suspect in September when I come back to the States
to kick some bow tie ass at Silver Sate it will be
driving that same stock Pantera averaging somewhere
around 150 Mph then driving to the Green Lantern to
shame all the bow tie slackers pretending they are
real </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">racers ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">Okay rant over. Is it too soon to mention who
won the Indy? ;-]></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">PS did the Drewster ever get his engine
running again?</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 127,
64);">Aussie Dawg Down Under</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold;
color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Team Pantera Racing</span></div>
<div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0,
191);">"No One Gets Out Alive" </span></div>
<div><span><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">www.teampanteraracing.com</a>></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">From:</span></b> Charles Engles <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:cengles@cox.net"><cengles@cox.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
'Asa Jay Laughton' <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com"><asajay@asajay.com></a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
Dear Asa,<br>
<br>
<br>
The first and second engines I built
were done with the standard<br>
ring positioning protocol. I then learned the
truth: the rings *move*<br>
during engine operation. They do not remain
permanently in place. The<br>
first two engines were with Aussie heads and made
401 and 385 hp.<br>
<br>
The next two engines were built with 4v
heads and absolute<br>
carefree disregard for the prime ring directive.
Dyno testing showed 440<br>
and 485 hp.<br>
<br>
I am about to begin the next engine and
I will continue with my<br>
laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem
to hurt engine<br>
performance.....!<br>
<br>
<br>
Scientifically yours, Chuck
Engles<br>
<br>
<br>
Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>]
On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com"
href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com"
href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br>
<br>
Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning
when assembly an engine:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg">http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg</a><br>
The two compression rings should be spaced about 30*
(or about one inch)<br>
from the front centerline of the piston, one on
either side. The oil ring<br>
segments are the same on the opposite side of the
piston toward the rear.<br>
The illustration above shows this quite well.<br>
<br>
But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br>
<br>
A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an
expert who was familiar<br>
with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate,
so in the end it doesn't<br>
really matter where you index them to start with...
<br>
they're going to move.<br>
<br>
Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics
engine. I had been<br>
careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I
removed the pistons/rods<br>
from the engine previously. Because I can't insure
they didn't move at all,<br>
the relationships below are rounded. Here are the
results. My "timing" is<br>
from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise.
The piston position at 12<br>
o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6
o-clock is at the rear.<br>
<br>
The first compression ring is at the top, the second
on the bottom.<br>
<br>
Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>
#1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>
#2 10 11 12/3<br>
#3 10 2 10/1 (probably
the only one closest <br>
to installed)<br>
#4 8 8 8/8 (All ring
gaps were lined up)<br>
<br>
#5 9 2 5/5<br>
#6 12 9 5/5<br>
#7 5 4 6/5<br>
#8 9 3 3/7<br>
<br>
As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll
work up a good<br>
illustration and post it later.<br>
<br>
Does this mean I won't index them the next time I
assemble and engine? <br>
Actually, I'll most likely still index them when
assembling, only because<br>
I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing
them does assist with<br>
initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I
look at that as an easy<br>
path for compression gasses to get past. In other
words, gases might get<br>
past the lower tension oil ring segments and past
the gap in the bottom<br>
compression ring but then they'll have to travel
around the edge a while<br>
before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring.
In the end, it may not<br>
really matter.<br>
<br>
Asa Jay<br>
Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br>
<br>
--<br>
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>
& Shelley Marie<br>
Spokane, WA<br>
******************************<br>
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