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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear David,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> So…..is the Pantera now powered? Up and runnin’??<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com [mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 28, 2012 12:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> Asa Jay Laughton<br><b>Cc:</b> tpr@teampanteraracing.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TPR] Open Chamber heads with Pop-Up pistons?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Before I fat-thumbed the previous reply I was going to that one could get a set of KB pistons designed just to give some compression fo us po boy open chamber folks -that is what is in my "Hall mini Brute" - I have pictures if interested. (no pistons for sale- for info only)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My refresh ended up: rings and hone, bearings, cam, lifters, springs, flywheel resurface, flow and port intake (just for fun). Valves are good but put in the best seals. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I believe Dan told me this was a common fix. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Happy trails<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On May 28, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <<a href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alright so this brought a question to my puny brain...<br><br>We'd all probably love to have closed chamber heads. But what if all I had were some open chamber heads. Would using a pop-up piston work to get the quench down further? Or is it a losing proposition on this head?<br><br>What are the opinions of the collective Pantera knowledge base?<br><br>Asa Jay<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>& Shelley Marie<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Spokane, WA<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>****************************** <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal><br>On 5/28/2012 9:35 AM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I wouldn't mind picking up another pair of 4V quench heads. I have two or three pair of open chamber, but only one pair of closed chamber. Not that I'm greedy or anything. <br><br>I wouldn't mind a pair of Aussie 2V heads with quench chamber, but I don't think they'd be the best for racing, as I believe you are pointing out and Chuck has validated since he's moved on as well.<br><br>Asa Jay<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>& Shelley Marie<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Spokane, WA<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>****************************** <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal><br>On 5/28/2012 6:56 AM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Hey Doc,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Since I do it so well let me play devil's advocate here from half way around the world.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Why use Aussie heads that only produce 375 to 400 Hp in street form when you can run closed chamber Cleveland heads that someone has thrown away or 302B and/or any similar alum heads that make so much more Hp (475-525 at the REAR wheels)?! ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If the answer is, "because I don't have cool 302B alum heads like you dawg"....or its, "the Aussie heads are just better"...then I gotta say since I am IN Australia now and I am hearing from the boys down under who want to seriously go fast that they all want quench or closed chamber heads. They will pay YOU to take their Aussie heads!!! Yea even in street modified weekend race engines that get driven on the street. ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Working for sheep herders wages down under I'll take a Aussie BLOCK if I can find one cheeep ecause I know they gotta be special because Jack keeps telling me that like he keeps telling me someone is gonna make a NEW Cleveland block to replace my 10 over Cleveland magic jack block I got from JB but I don't think thats gonna happen. I suspect in September when I come back to the States to kick some bow tie ass at Silver Sate it will be driving that same stock Pantera averaging somewhere around 150 Mph then driving to the Green Lantern to shame all the bow tie slackers pretending they are real <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>racers ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Okay rant over. Is it too soon to mention who won the Indy? ;-]><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>PS did the Drewster ever get his engine running again?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#007F40'>Aussie Dawg Down Under</span></i><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Team Pantera Racing</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'>"No One Gets Out Alive" </span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><<a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">www.teampanteraracing.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Charles Engles <a href="mailto:cengles@cox.net"><cengles@cox.net></a><br><b>To:</b> 'Asa Jay Laughton' <a href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com"><asajay@asajay.com></a>; <a href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:06 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Dear Asa,<br><br><br> The first and second engines I built were done with the standard<br>ring positioning protocol. I then learned the truth: the rings *move*<br>during engine operation. They do not remain permanently in place. The<br>first two engines were with Aussie heads and made 401 and 385 hp.<br><br> The next two engines were built with 4v heads and absolute<br>carefree disregard for the prime ring directive. Dyno testing showed 440<br>and 485 hp.<br><br> I am about to begin the next engine and I will continue with my<br>laissez-faire piston ring assembly. It doesn't seem to hurt engine<br>performance.....!<br><br><br> Scientifically yours, Chuck Engles<br><br><br>Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>[mailto:<a href="mailto:tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>] On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton<br>Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:59 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:detomaso@list.realbig.com">detomaso@list.realbig.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a><br>Subject: [TPR] Piston Ring Rotation.<br><br>Most of us are aware of the proper ring positioning when assembly an engine:<br><a href="http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg">http://www.351c.info/gallery2/d/218-1/ringspacing.jpg</a><br>The two compression rings should be spaced about 30* (or about one inch)<br>from the front centerline of the piston, one on either side. The oil ring<br>segments are the same on the opposite side of the piston toward the rear.<br>The illustration above shows this quite well.<br><br>But do the rings rotate after assembly?<br><br>A few years ago at the POCA Fun Rally, Jack had an expert who was familiar<br>with pistons. He said indeed the rings do rotate, so in the end it doesn't<br>really matter where you index them to start with... <br>they're going to move.<br><br>Today I recorded the ring locations on my forensics engine. I had been<br>careful not to turn the rings on the pistons when I removed the pistons/rods<br>from the engine previously. Because I can't insure they didn't move at all,<br>the relationships below are rounded. Here are the results. My "timing" is<br>from the -front- of the engine, moving clockwise. The piston position at 12<br>o'clock is the part facing front, the position at 6 o-clock is at the rear.<br><br>The first compression ring is at the top, the second on the bottom.<br><br>Piston 1st Comp 2nd Comp Oil/Oil<br>#1 8 o-clock 4 o-clock 4/2<br>#2 10 11 12/3<br>#3 10 2 10/1 (probably the only one closest <br>to installed)<br>#4 8 8 8/8 (All ring gaps were lined up)<br><br>#5 9 2 5/5<br>#6 12 9 5/5<br>#7 5 4 6/5<br>#8 9 3 3/7<br><br>As you can see, they are all over the place. I'll work up a good<br>illustration and post it later.<br><br>Does this mean I won't index them the next time I assemble and engine? <br>Actually, I'll most likely still index them when assembling, only because<br>I'm anal about those things and I do believe spacing them does assist with<br>initial break in. If they are spaced the same, I look at that as an easy<br>path for compression gasses to get past. In other words, gases might get<br>past the lower tension oil ring segments and past the gap in the bottom<br>compression ring but then they'll have to travel around the edge a while<br>before they meet up with the gap in the upper ring. In the end, it may not<br>really matter.<br><br>Asa Jay<br>Pantera Research Institute, Pacific Northwest<br><br>--<br>Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>& Shelley Marie<br>Spokane, WA<br>******************************<br><a href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a><br><a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TPR mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TPR mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr" target="_blank">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>TPR mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=avgcert>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5028 - Release Date: 05/28/12<o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>TPR mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=avgcert>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5028 - Release Date: 05/28/12<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>TPR mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com">TPR@teampanteraracing.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr">http://lists.teampanteraracing.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tpr</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>