Chuck,<br><br>Uhoh.... Hardened cam thrust plate?<br>Crap... first time I've heard of that one!<br><br>Off to do some research.<br><br>Kirby<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:03, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cengles@cox.net">cengles@cox.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Dear Kirby,
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Ah, the voice of experience. The roller cam conversion *continues* to
be treacherous in my opinion. Just when I think that "they" have
solved the issues, then the old ones and/or new ones seem to appear in
an expensive way in the lap of some poor owner. Sigh.
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I just learned today that the roller cam conversion in a Cleveland
(and other old Fords, I believe) requires a hardened cam thrust plate!
The roller cam can wear right through the ordinary stock one. Sigh, it
is always something.
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Two dumb questions about your brass gear use, Kirby.
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One: as you use the brass gear and all appears to be wearing properly,
then what?
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Two: if you use a soft brass gear and if it wears abnormally and badly
and quickly, then are the kindly and gentle little brass bits better
to float around in the oil than hardened steel bits? I think the
answer is probably yes, but is the brass so kind that you simply
change the gear and the oil and re-start the engine?
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Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
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---- Kirby Schrader <<a href="mailto:kirby.schrader@gmail.com" target="_blank">kirby.schrader@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Well,
I'm hearing all the assumptions, theories, personal experiences, etc.
etc., but I'm leaning towards the material side of things.<br>i.e.,
although they say they are compatible, they might not be?<br><br>I
would like to point out that I ran 90psi oil pressure hot in my 351C
for 15 years without a problem. Startup cold would peg the 100psi
gauge for a good five minutes. Never had any distributor gear
problems. Not a single one.<br>I did not have a roller cam though...
It was a flat tappet solid lifter cam ... with triple valve springs.
7000rpm was my shift point of choice.<br>So I personally rule out the
'too much oil pressure' theory.<br><br>Fast forward to the most recent
engine in the Pantera.<br>The steel gear on the hydraulic roller that
was in the Pantera looks fine and it will stay in the motor.<br>The
steel gear on the solid roller in the GT40 still looks fine, so it
will stay.<br>I will keep checking them both until I'm confident.<br><br>Although
I keep hearing about 'compatible' and 'it should work'... This stuff
is happening too much and for too long now.<br><br> I'm going with a
bronze gear in the new Cleveland going into the Pantera and live with
the maintenance issue until I'm confident.<br><br>The material they
make the roller cams out of is obviously the main problem and getting
a distributor gear to mate with it and live is the issue.<br>Of
course, as we all know, the BEST solution is a dry sump motor. No need
for a distributor gear!<br><br>I rarely hit the rev limiter. The one
in the Pantera is so dramatic, it takes your breath away. i.e., the
ECU shuts off the fuel.<br>Yes, I know... it's an ancient Haltech F9a,
but it works and I don't care what y'all think.<br>I can tell you that
it is anything but 'soft'. It's more like a launch through the
windshield.<br><br>The GT40 uses an Electromotive 'soft' setup. It
uses fuel and spark. Much for touchy feely.<br><br>OK, that's me done
ranting for the morning. Man.... that soap box seemed to have grown!<br><br><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 17:25, Charles Engles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=cengles%40cox.net" target="_blank">cengles@cox.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt">Dear Dennis and Russ,</font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> I
am such a dope. I hear that the non standard oil pump, i.e.
high volume and/or high pressure pumps, puts extra stress on
the gear interface. I guess that I am not able to appreciate
that it would be *<b>that</b>* much greater. I do however
yield to experience.</font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> I
can see that an external pump should solve that problem. I
think that would actually be a dry sump system?</font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> For
the rest of us thinking about the choppy waters of roller cam
conversions, it would seem to me that the answer is prevention
with gear compatibility, gear fitment (both gear to gear and
gear to block), attention to normal oiling passages ;
attention to the special oiling hole at the end of the left
lifter galley; bushed lifter bores, a good normal volume and
pressure oil pump and attention to detail.</font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt">
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles: Rookie Engine Builder</font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt">PS: just now the
newest issue of Circle Track has an article “The New School
Cleveland”. No discussion of roller cams, but an interesting
Cleveland engine building article for circle track.</font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<span><font color="#1F497D" size="11.0pt"> </font></span>
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<b><span><font size="10.0pt">From:</font></span></b><span><font size="10.0pt">
<a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=tpr-bounces%40teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>
[mailto:<a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=tpr-bounces%40teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank">tpr-bounces@teampanteraracing.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mad Dog Antenucci<br><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, June 20, 2011 3:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=tpr%40teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank">tpr@teampanteraracing.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b>
[TPR] Fw: Poly Dist Gear???</font></span>
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<span><font size="14.0pt">FYI....responses from Russ to
the Pope<br> </font></span>
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<b><span><font color="blue" size="14.0pt"><i>Mad Dawg
Antenucci <br></i></font><font color="red" size="14.0pt">Team
Pantera Racing</font></span></b><span><font size="14.0pt"> </font></span>
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<b><span><font color="#007F7F" size="14.0pt"><i>The 1st &
still the only vintage race team in open road racing </i></font><i><font size="14.0pt"><br></font></i></span></b><span><a href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="14.0pt">www.teampanteraracing.com</font></a></span>
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<span><font size="10.0pt">----- Forwarded Message ----<br><b>From:</b>
russell fulp <<a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=musclebyrussell%40hotmail.com" target="_blank">musclebyrussell@hotmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b>
<a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=adin%40frontier.net" target="_blank">adin@frontier.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b>
Dennis Antenucci <<a href="http://do/mail/message/mailto?to=teampantera%40yahoo.com" target="_blank">teampantera@yahoo.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b>
Mon, June 20, 2011 1:05:12 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> RE:
Poly Dist Gear???</font></span>
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Answers below in color.<br><br> <br>
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