<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div></div><div>Completely agree.....learning to drive in Washington state on black ice and rain, drifting around corners on high speed RETREADS with NO treads :-))))</div><div>Oh hell yes, what great fun.....remembering plowing my 67 GTO into a 5' ditch and deciding discretion was the better part of valor and started hot footing down the road to distance myself from whoever put that GOAT in the ditch a County Sherriff pulled along side me and asked, </div><div>"Do you know who owns that GTO down the road?"</div><div><br></div><div>Agree loose is better then so tight you don't know you are in trouble until its too late. Compromise for me and the Pantera which is way rear biased it to find a happy medium between feeling the road and staying ON the road over crowned dips at 150+ mph in a street modified
Pantera....Feel like I have reached that sweet spot thanks to Dick Drenske who set the Pantera suspension up for me. Just had rear shocks rebuilt and new alignment.....Be driving slowly in a week on a 1,000 mile road trip up to Reno on the H-395.</div><div><br></div><div><br> </div><div><strong><font color="#0000ff"><em>Mad Dawg Antenucci <br></em></font><font color="#ff0000">Team Pantera Racing</font></strong> </div> <div><em><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#007f7f">The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing </font><br></strong></em><font color="#0000ff"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">www.teampanteraracing.com</a></font></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> bob Radefeld <bob@radefeld.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> michael@michaelshortt.com<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com>; tpr@teampanteraracing.com<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sun, May 29, 2011 5:05:20 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [TPR] Oh! that hurts.<br></font><br><div><font size="4">Micheal hit the nail on the head when he said that large icy parking lots are an excellent course to help tune up your car control techniques. Practicing autocrossing around light poles on sheer ice ( </font><font size="4">late at night with no police around of course) can be both very enlightening & fun as well as relatively safe as long as you don't get crazy. Being in Washington State as you are I wouldn't think you'd have much trouble finding an
appropriate icy lot to play in once in a while? Here in Kansas (the land of "Ahh's"), far to many of our drivers with little or no experience driving on ice, when it first hits the road in winter, find themselves shouting a well known four letter word following their "Ahh's" as they are sliding off the road into the ditches!! :o(( Practice before the fact never hurts............well, unless you hit a light pole!</font></div>
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<div><font size="4">Bob Radefeld</font></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 5:28 AM, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com">michael@michaelshortt.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com">michaelsavga@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p>what I meant was, is that any little thing cause lead to problems that get much bigger when you add in all the physics of speed, Momentum, weight transfer, etc</p>
<p>Just having cold tires didn't put you in the ditch all by themselves.</p>
<p>I always get a kick out of watching some well meaning racer try to fix a problem by adjusting ten things at once. to solve an issue. How do you know which thing was the problem if you do it that way? change adjustments one at a time and if what you just did doesn't fix it, put it back where it was and change something else.</p>
<p>not remembering if You braked or not is good I think, you were in the moment and I'm sure you did, otherwise the damage would have been worse. sounds like you were trying to save it the whole way, unlike some novice who might have braked hard, been rear ended, stirred up a lot of debris and used stiffened arms to brace themselves for a nice big thud.</p>
<p>nothing wrong with trying to drive it of trouble until the bitter end.</p>
<p>I personally like a car that is "loose" with maybe 52% rear weight bias, that way you can usually induce a slide with a little extra throttle if you meed too. nothing gives me the willies more than being a passenger when a car is tight or pushes so hard that driver input is meaningless, it like just being along for the ride, except your * gets real tight and eventually your wallet gets real loose. </p>
<p>it didn't get real cold often in NC where i grew up, but when we did have ice storms, i used to find big empty parking lots to play on to try and learn car control, that was fun. </p>
<p>aside from letting the tires warm up, I'd look into some adjustable shocks and get your weights set up, it will feel like another car.</p>
<p>thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>michael<br><br><br></p>
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<div class="h5">On May 29, 2011 12:26 AM, "Asa Jay Laughton" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:asajay@asajay.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>> wrote:<br>> On 5/28/2011 6:33 PM, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com">michael@michaelshortt.com</a> wrote:<br>
>><br>>> glad that you and the car faired so well. sounds like min damage <br>>> that could have been much worse.<br>>><br>>> can we surmise the cause?<br>>><br>> Yes, it was a loose nut between the steering wheel and the seat.<br>
>><br>>> you drove in nose first, was that by choice?<br>>><br>> No, however if I had been thinking faster, maybe 10 times faster, I <br>> could have cranked the front to the opposite lock and perhaps swung the <br>
> ass end enough to stay on the track.<br>>><br>>> understeer or "push" involved?<br>>><br>> probably some trailing throttle oversteer, brought the ass end around on <br>> me and I couldn't correct myself back into line.<br>
>><br>>> did your brakes do all that they could?<br>>><br>> Funny I can't even remember using the brakes until I knew I was going <br>> off the track.<br>>><br>>> sand on the track?<br>
>><br>> Nope.<br>>><br>>> cold tires?<br>>><br>> Most definately.<br>>><br>>> wrong pressures?<br>>><br>> No<br>>><br>>> what size sway bars front and rear?<br>
>><br>> Front = stock (3/4" I think)<br>> Rear = 7/8"<br>>><br>>> ride height front and rear?<br>>><br>> That's anybody's guess with my wacked shocks.<br>>><br>>> have you done your corner weights ( with the car wet and your weight <br>
>> in the drivers seat?<br>>><br>> Nope<br>>><br>>> what ties at what if any tread depth?<br>>><br>> Toyo Proxes R888, one season already on them, I'm between a 1/16" and <br>> 1/8" from the wear bars.<br>
>><br>>> every boo-boo is an opportunity to learn, some lessons ( like broken <br>>> rockers sometimes) just cost more than others.<br>>><br>> This one had to do with getting excited early in the morning on a cold <br>
> track. I was -not- the first to spin on the track today. They were <br>> even warning all the drivers to take the first run slow. I thought I <br>> was until I got to that one cone.<br>>><br>>> I was reading about Senna again today, gone too soon, killed by <br>
>> suspension parts directly, but all caused by a broken steering <br>>> column. Every little part counts, they're all ultimately connected to <br>>> each other.<br>>><br>> <br>> Now you lost me.<br>
> Asa Jay<br>>><br>>> Michael Shortt<br>>><br>>> On May 28, 2011 8:48 PM, "Asa Jay Laughton" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:asajay@asajay.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a> <br></div></div>
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<div class="h5">>> <mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:asajay@asajay.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>> > Autocross today at Spokane County Raceway, not the usual course at Deer<br>>> > Park airport. They've just finished re-routing the road course and our<br>
>> > local autocross club managed to get a big chunk of it today for us to<br>>> > try out our driver skills. This makes for a faster course as all the<br>>> > autocross elements are laid out in-line with the road coarse.<br>
>> ><br>>> > This can also be deceptive, challenging and dangerous if you're not<br>>> > paying attention. Such unlucky fortune found it my way today.<br>>> ><br>>> > First run of the day, cold track, cold tires. Didn't take it easy<br>
>> > enough. Ran OFF track and nosed my Pantera into a ditch when I failed<br>>> > to negotiate a slalom. The previously dented front valance now is<br>>> > dented severely to include new creases. Well, I -was- going to replace<br>
>> > that anyway. And as further luck would have it, as I inspected and<br>>> > hammered it out just a tad, I found where that funny warm coolant odor<br>>> > was coming from. <sigh> Looks like the Fluidyne radiator is weeping<br>
>> > just a tad on the drivers side from some tube (I haven't found exactly<br>>> > where yet). Not enough to leave drops on the garage floor yet, but<br>>> > we'll need to get that fixed.<br>
>> ><br>>> > Second and third runs went much better and by the end of the day we <br>>> were<br>>> > spanking the course pretty darn hard.<br>>> ><br>>> > Sooo....<br>>> ><br>
>> > - Glad I've not started a restoration project yet<br>>> > - She's still pulling hard and driving fine (though the driver needs a<br>>> > bit more experience)<br>>> > - Having fun despite the tiny setbacks.<br>
>> ><br>>> > :)<br>>> > Asa Jay<br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired<br>>> > & Shelley Marie<br>>> > Spokane, WA<br>
>> > ******************************<br>>> > <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com/">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a><br>>> > <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com/">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a><br>
>> > <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a><br>>> ><br>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>> > TPR mailing list<br>
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