[TPR] Fwd: Why 160-180 MPH Pantera’s and old Stingrays need aero

Thu Apr 15 14:19:15 PDT 2021

FYI - For clarity on 200 MPH At SS, BBBOR or SORC
READ BELOW....note HP referenced. 
> ======•••••=======
> 
> Charlie Friend:  Corvair: he was trying HARD to get into 200 Club!!  Couldn't seem to get there!!  Maybe 2007 he built a pointed nose for 'Vair'.  Rather than try to add more HP to push a brick thru the air faster....he did that.....& DID get into 200 mph club!!!   ( he had zero handling issues....not light in front or rear. )
> 
> Todd Carpenter was REALLY light in rear end at high speed.  Car had a little Z28 factory spoiler lip on trunk lid.  We removed it once because he wanted to go faster at BBORR.....& thought reduced resistance might be key!!!  ( car was a bit looser as a result....Scotty Cardwell can attest )  That year he was DNF first leg.....crankshaft rear oil seal failure.   ( shut down at Tower Hill )  Scot said Todd had rear end loose MANY times @ many races....car felt like it was on dirt.....& Todd seemed to handle it just fine!!!
> 
> Todd said rear end wobbled pretty bad above 200.  He put air diffusers under trunk......& he said car stabilized perfect after that!!!
> 
> I told you about M&M car getting air 'under' car......& whole car got loose above 190.   That new plastic air dam & increased side skirts....problem solved!!
> Rear wing: originally car was a SW Tour NASCAR: NOT meant for those speeds.   When I bought car from Mike Borders, we reduced rear wing 2" & laid it back additional 10 degrees ( we didn't need the drag at high speeds.....& I was never under 120 during ORR events)  Not sure, I think it was 60 degrees & we laid back to 50 degrees.
> Problem: lack of downforce at lower speeds, meant I had to go fast before I could open throttle fully.  Basically: I had to reach 80 mph before I could open it up.....or tires would spin 'Violently'!!!!  Solid axle, locking Winters rear end, 12" wide NASCAR slicks......but car only weighed 2460 lbs....& had 800 HP / 780 ft lbs torque!!!  ( full NASCARS today are about 4,000 lbs )
> I'll see if I can find picture of car in Vegas.  Turn One @ 165 mph: air pressure sooo high on hood, it was 'CAVING IN'!!!  ( We strengthened hood after I saw this pic!! )
> NO handling issues because of that pressure, but we didn't have the High HP to push that brick faster....for a couple years.
> But it enforces YOUR idea with Pantera's to ADD Air dam, because pointed nose is tooo high & you don't want air under nose....or under car!!  Even though your air dam creates a 'Flying Brick' effect......you have the power to go the speeds you want......AND control the air to make car handle properly!!
> 
> 
> All said:  Your ideas expressed.....are totally SOUND!!!
> 
> Nah!!  Couldn't find pic of M&M car......just found reminder pic of 'Mormon Kricket Massacre' (MKM) from Battle Mtn!!!!
> SEE.....air dams even work on front of trailers!!!!!!!!!!!!
> DC
> 
> 
> Freedom is a fragile thing, & never more than one generation away from extinction!!
> R. Reagan
> 
> From: DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 6:36 PM
> To: DENNIS ANTENUCCI <TEAMPANTERA at yahoo.com>
> Cc: skwarek mark <mlskwarek at gmail.com>; John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com>; David Carpenter <davecarp80138 at outlook.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>; Lee Pedersen <salemmotorsport at yahoo.com>; Ransom Sanders <ransomsan at msn.com>; laurieferrari at aol.com <laurieferrari at aol.com>; Peter Menyhart <PMenyhart at msn.com>; Peter <Beckham61 at comcast.net>; Eric Pettersen <tire_guy at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: Why 160-180 MPH Pantera’s and old Stingrays need aero
>  
> 
> Photos of Mark’s (and my old) Air Dam
> 
> MD
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Apr 15, 2021, at 11:34 AM, DENNIS ANTENUCCI <TEAMPANTERA at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> Take a look at LARRYS diffuser & bottom pieces. 
>> 
>> If your planning to tech at 180 for a 170 or even a 160 goal I am certain Larry’s race  proven pieces (diffuser etc) would improve.
>> One more item I only used twice was a rear spoiler mounted on the rear of the body may also improve handling.
>> 
>> I am certain Larry has opinions....Brock Yates (designer of Shelby Daytona) opinion voiced to me was “forget the tall rear spoilers and go to a IMSA style that goes straight off the back 12-18”....
>> 
>>  Again NO ONE in a Pantera has used a rear spoiler like Brocks suggestion but it is worth testing....even Brock qualified his opinion that he didn’t know either...which means allot of testing would be necessary to get it and the rest of thero work right. 
>> 
>> A Pantera is NOT a race car. 
>> Just my opinion.
>> 
>> MD
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 15, 2021, at 9:17 AM, skwarek mark <mlskwarek at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As I have MD's front air dam, I am always looking forward to other stability enhancing modifications.
>>> 
>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 11:00 AM DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> <image0.jpeg>
>>> 
>>> I hear that JB...here’s your answer...no road interference ala’ Randy Grubb or you can go with one of larry’s.
>>> 
>>> I will add again with Larry’s full air dam MY Pantera was stable up to 170-180 MPH...Adding side skirts did not make a difference up to those speeds but I am certain they do make a difference as Dave has mentioned with the added diffuser and underside mods...but Like you I am not running those speeds and don’t plan to again until I turn 80.
>>> 
>>> MD
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 14, 2021, at 8:46 PM, John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My Pantera gets light at 155 so I never go above 150. I have a front air dam but never got around to putting it on. There is always something  else to do :). I put a couple large sand bags in the front trunk and that seems to help but really need more down force. 
>>>> JB 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 14, 2021, at 7:19 PM, David Carpenter <davecarp80138 at outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2006,     Ron Adee   He came to race with larger splitter on front of highly modified white Viper.
>>>>> Clips that held on front end were the same as the year before.
>>>>> One mile shoot out, he got over 210 mph.  20 yards AFTER finish line the clips Broke due to higher force!  Front end blew off car & sailed 40 yards in air!!!
>>>>> Luckily it happened when it did!!
>>>>> He was off throttle & On brakes, so Nose was 'Diving' Not lifting!!!
>>>>> He said it handled OK....& it happened sooo fast, all he saw was a Blip of white as it came off!!
>>>>> I was the car just ahead of him, so I didn't see it, but saw the video & pics later.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves & abhors, is Sinful & Tyrannical!!"
>>>>> T. Jefferson
>>>>> From: David Carpenter <davecarp80138 at outlook.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 8:06:43 PM
>>>>> To: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera at yahoo.com>; mlskwarek at gmail.com <mlskwarek at gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>; John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com>; Lee Pedersen <salemmotorsport at yahoo.com>; Ransom Sanders <ransomsan at msn.com>; laurieferrari at aol.com <laurieferrari at aol.com>; Peter Menyhart <PMenyhart at msn.com>; Peter <Beckham61 at comcast.net>; Eric Pettersen <tire_guy at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Why 160-180 MPH Pantera’s and old Stingrays need aero
>>>>>  
>>>>> C-5, 6 & 7: high speed they got rock solid!!
>>>>> Even at 180, just plain comfortable!!!
>>>>> I think factory specs on my C7 Z06;   downforce increase was like 1,200 lbs at 150 mph!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I haven't heard about C8.
>>>>> But wind tunnel testing is their norm...so I'd trust it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves & abhors, is Sinful & Tyrannical!!"
>>>>> T. Jefferson
>>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 7:35:11 PM
>>>>> To: DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera at yahoo.com>; mlskwarek at gmail.com <mlskwarek at gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>; Dave & Deb Carpenter <davecarp80138 at outlook.com>; John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com>; Lee Pedersen <salemmotorsport at yahoo.com>; Ransom Sanders <ransomsan at msn.com>; laurieferrari at aol.com <laurieferrari at aol.com>; Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>; Peter <Beckham61 at comcast.net>; Eric Pettersen <tire_guy at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Why 160-180 MPH Pantera’s and old Stingrays need aero
>>>>>  
>>>>> Damn!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Great illustration, but... Damn!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Asa  Jay
>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>> Spokane County ARES-RACES-ACS EC/RO
>>>>> ******************************     
>>>>> https://w7tsc.org
>>>>> https://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>> On 4/14/2021 17:50, DENNIS ANTENUCCI wrote:
>>>>>> Excellent ground affects 
>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> MD
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Who says aerodynamics aren't critical?
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> <Pantera aero mods (2).jpg>
>>> <Pantera aero mods.jpg>
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