[TPR] Steering rack ready
Richard Drenske
ddrenske at murraycompany.com
Thu Jul 18 19:51:21 PDT 2013
Still here. Can make bushing but no extreme labor anymore.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 18, 2013, at 6:52 PM, "DennisAntenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Please, lets try and remember that our exotic Italian automobiles were hand built by craftsman in Modena. At least that is what Gary Hall told my brother when the spoiler Hall sent my brother to install on my Pantera 25 years ago did not fit.
>
> Mad Dawg
>
> mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Chuck,
> >To be exact one side is 6.9 and the other is 6.7 degrees. I've rolled the fenders slightly. The tires are Toyo R888's size 245/45/16. There is some slight rubbing on hard turns but the happens while parking. Never while driving. My springs are 450# in the front and I have never had an issue with the tire and the outer fender getting together.
> >
> >Hope this is some help. I am very happy with this setup.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> >To: 'mark skwarek' <ehpantera at yahoo.com>; 'DennisAntenucci' <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> >Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 3:05 PM
> >Subject: RE: [TPR] Steering rack ready
> >
> >
> >
> >Dear Mark,
> >
> >
> > For clarification, you have seven degrees just with Johnny Woods’ trick upper A arm and no other mods? No tire-fender issues? What size of wheels and tires are you using in the front?
> >
> >
> > Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> >
> >
> >From:TPR [mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com] On Behalf Of mark skwarek
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:45 PM
> >To: Charles Engles; 'DennisAntenucci'
> >Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> >Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
> >
> >I have approx 7 degrees of caster and it is not too bad at low speeds. Nothing could be better on the open road. Straight and true. Come to SSCC and see.
> >
> >Mod was done by Johnny Woods.
> >Mark
> >
> >From:Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> >To: 'DennisAntenucci' <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:11 PM
> >Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
> >
> >Dear Dennis,
> >
> >
> > One Pantera has a custom upper a arm fabricated locally by an NHRA certified chassis builder. It has been twenty years and I *think* I may have also modified lower bushings for about 4.5 degrees positive caster.
> >
> > The other Pantera was done after the first and I used seriously chopped bushings top and bottom with a final result of a documented five degrees positive caster.
> >
> > Neither one has the upper ball joint shaved, although I think that is a reasonable idea.
> >
> > One note of caution with positive caster of four degrees and greater: beware as it can throw your suspension geometry into a situation where the outer front edge of the tire can snag the fender if the suspension is compressed as in...turning up a driveway. The result is a PITA minor paint and metal glitch and trip to the paint&body guy. That is the only known downside to positive caster, IMHO.
> >
> >
> > Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: DennisAntenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:00 PM
> >To: Charles Engles
> >Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> >Subject: RE: [TPR] Steering rack ready
> >
> >Yo Doc,
> >
> >Good to hear your feedback...How.much do you have? And how did you achieve it?
> >
> >...is there anyone out there we know that has went with the aftermarket A Arms to get 8+ ??
> >
> >Dawg
> >
> >
> >Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Dear Asa and Maddog,
> >>
> >>
> >> I completely second the motion for as much positive caster as you can get.
> >>
> >> The Positive Caster Ambassador, Chuck Engles
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: DennisAntenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:11 PM
> >>To: Charles Engles
> >>Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> >>Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
> >>
> >>Cool stuff Aj...and well said Doc. Quella is great.
> >>
> >>I would add the machined/modified upper A arm and new delrin bushings or all together new A-arms is worth the work to get 5-8 positive caster for improved high speed handling.
> >>
> >>Of all the chasis/suspension mods Dick Drenske or others made to my Pantera including new shocks, springs etc the one mod that delivered the most noticable benefit to handling or specifically high speed handling was going from 2.5-3 degrees positive caster to 5...I understand Johnny Woods and others A-arms are getting up to 8 with their aftermarket A arms
> >>
> >>Right out of the alignment shop after Dick did the work the seat of the pants handling improvement was big.
> >>
> >>Mike Drew recommended 'against' the delrin offset bushings that Dick machined citing that the increased steering effort did not justify the mod but my own experience was that there was no noticable increase in steering..
> >>
> >>Maybe a small increase in steering effort at full stop or in parking but the improvement in added caster was well worth it. And that was just going 2.5 to 5 with Dicks mod.
> >>
> >>I think Dick is now retired (Dick you still on site??) But there are others who can do the same work.
> >>
> >>And as JB says, "Dawg doesnt touch tools and at Silverstate we dont ever let him touch any tools"
> >>
> >>Yea okay, I dont disagree but I am a super star too. ;-)
> >>
> >>MD
> >>
> >> Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >TPR mailing list
> >TPR at teampanteraracing.com
> >http://teampanteraracing.com/mailman/listinfo/tpr_teampanteraracing.com
>
> Chuck,
> To be exact one side is 6.9 and the other is 6.7 degrees. I've rolled the fenders slightly. The tires are Toyo R888's size 245/45/16. There is some slight rubbing on hard turns but the happens while parking. Never while driving. My springs are 450# in the front and I have never had an issue with the tire and the outer fender getting together.
>
> Hope this is some help. I am very happy with this setup.
>
> Mark
>
> From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> To: 'mark skwarek' <ehpantera at yahoo.com>; 'DennisAntenucci' <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 3:05 PM
> Subject: RE: [TPR] Steering rack ready
>
> Dear Mark,
>
>
> For clarification, you have seven degrees just with Johnny Woods’ trick upper A arm and no other mods? No tire-fender issues? What size of wheels and tires are you using in the front?
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> From: TPR [mailto:tpr-bounces at teampanteraracing.com] On Behalf Of mark skwarek
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:45 PM
> To: Charles Engles; 'DennisAntenucci'
> Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
>
> I have approx 7 degrees of caster and it is not too bad at low speeds. Nothing could be better on the open road. Straight and true. Come to SSCC and see.
>
> Mod was done by Johnny Woods.
> Mark
>
> From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> To: 'DennisAntenucci' <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
>
> Dear Dennis,
>
>
> One Pantera has a custom upper a arm fabricated locally by an NHRA certified chassis builder. It has been twenty years and I *think* I may have also modified lower bushings for about 4.5 degrees positive caster.
>
> The other Pantera was done after the first and I used seriously chopped bushings top and bottom with a final result of a documented five degrees positive caster.
>
> Neither one has the upper ball joint shaved, although I think that is a reasonable idea.
>
> One note of caution with positive caster of four degrees and greater: beware as it can throw your suspension geometry into a situation where the outer front edge of the tire can snag the fender if the suspension is compressed as in...turning up a driveway. The result is a PITA minor paint and metal glitch and trip to the paint&body guy. That is the only known downside to positive caster, IMHO.
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DennisAntenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:00 PM
> To: Charles Engles
> Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> Subject: RE: [TPR] Steering rack ready
>
> Yo Doc,
>
> Good to hear your feedback...How.much do you have? And how did you achieve it?
>
> ...is there anyone out there we know that has went with the aftermarket A Arms to get 8+ ??
>
> Dawg
>
>
> Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
> >Dear Asa and Maddog,
> >
> >
> > I completely second the motion for as much positive caster as you can get.
> >
> > The Positive Caster Ambassador, Chuck Engles
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: DennisAntenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:11 PM
> >To: Charles Engles
> >Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
> >Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
> >
> >Cool stuff Aj...and well said Doc. Quella is great.
> >
> >I would add the machined/modified upper A arm and new delrin bushings or all together new A-arms is worth the work to get 5-8 positive caster for improved high speed handling.
> >
> >Of all the chasis/suspension mods Dick Drenske or others made to my Pantera including new shocks, springs etc the one mod that delivered the most noticable benefit to handling or specifically high speed handling was going from 2.5-3 degrees positive caster to 5...I understand Johnny Woods and others A-arms are getting up to 8 with their aftermarket A arms
> >
> >Right out of the alignment shop after Dick did the work the seat of the pants handling improvement was big.
> >
> >Mike Drew recommended 'against' the delrin offset bushings that Dick machined citing that the increased steering effort did not justify the mod but my own experience was that there was no noticable increase in steering..
> >
> >Maybe a small increase in steering effort at full stop or in parking but the improvement in added caster was well worth it. And that was just going 2.5 to 5 with Dicks mod.
> >
> >I think Dick is now retired (Dick you still on site??) But there are others who can do the same work.
> >
> >And as JB says, "Dawg doesnt touch tools and at Silverstate we dont ever let him touch any tools"
> >
> >Yea okay, I dont disagree but I am a super star too. ;-)
> >
> >MD
> >
> > Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TPR mailing list
> TPR at teampanteraracing.com
> http://teampanteraracing.com/mailman/listinfo/tpr_teampanteraracing.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TPR mailing list
> TPR at teampanteraracing.com
> http://teampanteraracing.com/mailman/listinfo/tpr_teampanteraracing.com
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