[TPR] Steering rack ready

Thu Jul 18 15:37:35 PDT 2013

Dear Chuck,

For god's sake man, you're starting to sound like mikey! :) ok, yes it could do something if maybe there was a geometric doohickey involved and up and down and in and out stuff going on.  I thought we were talking about the difference between 5 and 8 degrees so I didn't think there was going to be a lot of change in tire clearance, but I will defer to those in the know.

JB
now back to your regularly scheduled programming.......

________________________________
 From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
To: 'John Bentley' <gndplne at yahoo.com>; 'DennisAntenucci' <teampantera at yahoo.com> 
Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com 
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: [TPR] Steering rack ready

Dear JB,

                      I do think that you’re missing something.   The dynamics of the parts moving in a front suspension is surprisingly complex and not completely intuitive.  With my limited understanding and experience, I *think* that if the car is static and not moving the center of the wheel may still be at or near the original center with symmetrical upper and lower bushing mods.   I *think* that if you add the turning movement of the wheels, then things begin to change.  I seem to recall that an effect of the bigger caster is to produce a bit of jacking of one front corner of the car with turning and that should translate into a comparable “unjacking” down of the opposite side.   Add tuning into a driveway to the mix and unpleasant tire-metal contact can result.

                                       Front end chassis amateur,  Chuck Engles

From:John Bentley [mailto:gndplne at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:54 AM
To: DennisAntenucci; Charles Engles
Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready

if done properly, there would be no change in the wheel position in the well.  If you move the top a-arm back and the bottom a-arm forward the same amount, there is no position difference in the axle.  If you only move the top, yes you could have problems.  Or, maybe I'm missing something here.....  Has someone done both bushing sets and then had interference issues?

JB

________________________________

From:DennisAntenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> 
Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready

Yea but does any of them race? ;-)

Good point on fender. I DID rear up fender exactly that way with 225/50/15 BFG R-1's....subsequently had all the fenders rolled and added Campy clones...since then no problems at all with my Campy clone 8" fronts that have 240/40/17 fronts...but that is with 5 degrees...sure would be nice to talk to someone who has 8+....

Quess we can start with Dennis Quella or any of the other vendors who have prepared modified  race Panteras.

Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

>Dear Dennis,
>
>
>          One Pantera has a custom upper a arm fabricated locally by an NHRA certified chassis builder.  It has been twenty years and I *think* I may have also modified lower bushings for about 4.5 degrees positive caster.
>        
>          The other Pantera was done after the first and I used seriously chopped bushings top and bottom with a final result of a documented five degrees positive caster.
>
>        Neither one has the upper ball joint shaved, although I think that is a reasonable idea.
>
>        One note of caution with positive caster of four degrees and greater: beware as it can throw your suspension geometry into a situation where the outer front edge of the tire can snag the fender if the suspension is compressed as in...turning up a driveway.  The result is a PITA minor paint and metal glitch and trip to the paint&body guy.  That is the only known downside to positive caster, IMHO.
>
>
>                Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DennisAntenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:00 PM
>To: Charles Engles
>Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
>Subject: RE: [TPR] Steering rack ready
>
>Yo Doc,
>
>Good to hear your feedback...How.much do you have? And how did you achieve it?
>
>...is there anyone out there we know that has went with the aftermarket A Arms to get 8+ ??
>
>Dawg
>
>
> Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Dear Asa and Maddog,
>>
>>
>>        I completely second the motion for as much positive caster as you can get.  
>>
>>                    The Positive Caster Ambassador,  Chuck  Engles
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: DennisAntenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com] 
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:11 PM
>>To: Charles Engles
>>Cc: tpr at teampanteraracing.com
>>Subject: Re: [TPR] Steering rack ready
>>
>>Cool stuff Aj...and well said Doc. Quella is great.
>>
>>I would add the machined/modified upper A arm and new delrin bushings or all together new A-arms is worth the work to get 5-8 positive caster for improved high speed handling.
>>
>>Of all the chasis/suspension mods Dick Drenske or others  made to my Pantera including new shocks, springs etc the one mod that delivered the most noticable benefit  to handling or specifically high speed handling was going from 2.5-3 degrees positive caster to 5...I understand  Johnny Woods and others A-arms are getting up to 8 with their aftermarket  A arms
>>
>>Right out of the alignment shop after Dick did the work the seat of the pants handling improvement was big.
>>
>>Mike Drew recommended 'against' the delrin offset bushings that Dick machined citing that the increased steering effort did not justify the mod but my own experience was  that there was no noticable increase in steering..
>>
>>Maybe a small increase in steering effort at full stop or in parking but the improvement in added caster was well worth it. And that was just going 2.5 to 5 with Dicks mod.
>>
>>I think Dick is now retired (Dick you still on site??) But there are others who can do the same work.
>>
>>And as JB says,  "Dawg doesnt touch tools and at Silverstate we dont ever  let him touch any tools"
>>
>>Yea okay, I dont disagree but I am a super star too. ;-)
>>
>>MD
>>
>> Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>
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